Parkland Florida School Shooting

[BehindBlueI's]

Not really the issue here. Walk into any briefing room and you will find burnouts, the injured, the minimally capable, the disinterested and the meat eaters. Meat eaters want to go out and prowl, looking for damsels in distress, dragons to slay, etc. Every supervisor wants meat eaters for their units. You have a finite pool to pick from.

So I'm going to say you mean "every GOOD supervisor" because we both know there are slugs who don't want workers because workers generate complaints and generate paperwork. From my experience, school police actively dissuade police work. I had a school cop watch a hit and run suspect walk off from the crash because they weren't supposed to take enforcement actions. Then that plays into the rest of your post. Cops who want to cop don't pursue SRO positions, and those guys are the ones most likely mentally and physically equipped for active shooter situations.

I have a good friend who was a school cop for a bit...right up until he could get hired by us. He's both a hell of a cop and a hell of a person. I've been sitting with him when former students came up and thanked him for something he did for them 10 years ago. He obviously made a difference. Besides being good with kids, he's a veteran, a former (good) competitive fighter, and a go-getter. He also couldn't wait to get out of the school cop position because he knew his brass didn't want him being any of that except the first part and he wanted to be a cop, not just a social worker with a gun.

[Medusa]

“Social worker with a gun” is a phrase for law enforcement I first encountered in Kent Anderson’s books “Night Dogs” and “Green Sun.” It was eye opening, having worked in a closely related field (legal aid) for many years. Eye opening isn’t always a positive experience, but it’s an important experience.

One of the main benefits I’ve realized from being here is time spent, just watching and listening, around those of you who are LEOs. I have my thoughts and perspective and experiences on and with law enforcement based on what I’ve seen, but you have broadened and deepened them, and I appreciate it.

[UNM1136]

“Social worker with a gun” is a phrase for law enforcement I first encountered in Kent Anderson’s books “Night Dogs” and “Green Sun.” It was eye opening, having worked in a closely related field (legal aid) for many years. Eye opening isn’t always a positive experience, but it’s an important experience.

One of the main benefits I’ve realized from being here is time spent, just watching and listening, around those of you who are LEOs. I have my thoughts and perspective and experiences on and with law enforcement based on what I’ve seen, but you have broadened and deepened them, and I appreciate it.

RB

If you want to see some historical fiction on the topic check out Joseph Waumbaugh's earlier writings. The Blue Knight, The New Centurions, The Onion Fields, but especially The Choir Boys.. You can look up the author, but the Cliff Notes say that he was an LAPD Detective Sergeant when he started writing and got so popular that fans would besiege the Wilshire station causing problems for the department, so he quit and became a writer. In the late 80s/early 90s he kinda jumped the shark when he moved to PI stories, rather than cops.

The last one I recommended to all of my Boots out of the Academy. I couldn't make them read it without paying them overtime, but as I matured in my career I realized just how many of those HUGELY flawed people I have served with. I shudder to think about how many (actually how few) actual people those characters were based on. And yet, that is reality to a large extent. The rules have changed, the technology has changed, but it seems to me the people are the constant. I still see many of those characters around me today. Nowhere near "all" cops are problem children like the Choir Boys, but almost all cops know at least one personality type portrayed in the book.

When I tested for LAPD in 1995 they were offering $36,600 a year in base pay for an insanely high cost of living. I took a job a couple of years later in the second largest city in the state, and signed on for $10.80 an hour. Four years later I was making $12.88 an hour and left for a different department in 2002 to make $11.00 an hour. I was still in the top ten percent of cops in the state for hourly pay.

pat

[UNM1136]

So I'm going to say you mean "every GOOD supervisor" because we both know there are slugs who don't want workers because workers generate complaints and generate paperwork. From my experience, school police actively dissuade police work. I had a school cop watch a hit and run suspect walk off from the crash because they weren't supposed to take enforcement actions. Then that plays into the rest of your post. Cops who want to cop don't pursue SRO positions, and those guys are the ones most likely mentally and physically equipped for active shooter situations.

Yes, Sergeant, I should have been more clear by saying "every supervisor worth working for". My first agency had an unwritten rule that if you thought you were going to get complained on that you needed to let your supervisor know (both to prepare them for the complaint, and to secure audio and video tapes of the incident). We had a city ordinance for False Report that was broader than the state statute (which required a criminal act to be falsely reported) that the agency would use to charge someone when the evidence showed they knowingly made a false accusation against an officer.

When I got to my new agency my LT was shocked about how often I gave him a heads up on a complaint. He wanted to know why I didn't try for more compliments. In my new non-rookie status (5 years on the road) I pointed that I would LOVE compliments, but EVERYONE seems to think they know more about my job than I do, and on many, many scenes there are folks that think I didn't do enough, and those that think I went too far. People who are satisfied with police service rarely call to compliment. Those that are dissatisfied frequently call to complain. In 20 years I can count the SUSTAINED complaints on both hands, and still be able measure hard liquor with the leftover fingers. Discipline has never been above a written reprimand. A hard worker can generate weekly or monthly complaints. As we used to say, "show me a cop that never gets complained on, and I will show you a cop that doesn't do anything".

On a side note, a former co-worker when he was a school district cop was given a directive that when taking a burglary report it was only a burglary if the District's property was stolen. If it was a burglary, and only the teacher's property was involved it was in fact a larceny. I could not work in that system.

pat

[UNM1136]

From the look of things, over the decades, there have been too many (actual) doughnut eaters. But I agree, most agencies closely resemble, (to large extent), the society the personnel are drawn from, and not enough weeding out of those unfit physically, mentally, emotionally, psychically.

I wonder how or if things will change as more military veterans enter the federal, state, local forces. Back in my day it was Vietnam vets, over the last couple of decades vets from our various campaigns in the Middle East and elsewhere.

While the missions are different, the willingness to engage, (within and consistent with the law), is still necessary...regardless of how the prevailing culture continues its attempt to cull and weed it out.

Blues,

I thought a bit about replying as I looked at my waist band, and the pathetic shape I have allowed myself to lapse into. Injuries and aging issues have slowed my return to a better fighting weight, with strength and endurance suffering beyond what should be acceptable for a meat eater. This hurts my heart to admit. I was going to let your post go without response because it hit kinda close to home.

A week ago I let a dude outrun me. He was suicidal, fighting with his girlfriend, and smoked me as he ran into the nearby student ghetto. We later learned that he was, of all things, a cat burglar who has been making us look foolish the last few weeks. We have warrants out for him now. I had a couple of suggestions for his mental health issues.

Two nights ago I helped set up a perimeter on a burglary in progress, and jumped the suspect fleeing from the property. I chased him a couple of hundred yards when he started jumping walls. No air unit nor canine units were available. I lost him as he began running through back yards. I found the prick a second time and noticed a really big screwdriver shoved into his waist band. I also found the clothes he discarded in his attempt to get away. Not wanting him to get stupid with the screwdriver I chased him a couple of blocks while vectoring units to him. He was taken into custody with minimal issues. I later got him to confess, legally.

I want to be a meat eater. A few years ago I read First Into Action, the autobiography of a SBS operative starting his career in the Troubles, then moving forward. He wrote that as a teen he was terrified that he was a coward, and joined the Royal Marines as kind of a test to determine if he was in fact a coward. I have worked with so many meat eaters that I am terrified of failing to be one when I really need to be. Those cops have left a big mark upon me about what a cop is, and while I struggle to get back into shape, I am always afraid of coming up wanting when it really matters.

But that is a struggle to be fought daily, and so far I believe I have not disappointed my mentors and friends when it was time to do the job. But that fear of failing to be a meat eater when it is really important keeps me swinging, lack of fitness or not. And the fitness will improve.

Sorry, that was a bit more of a vulnerable moment than I intended. I am tough now. Ready to be a meat eater.

pat

[blues]

Blues,

I thought a bit about replying as I looked at my waist band, and the pathetic shape I have allowed myself to lapse into. Injuries and aging issues have slowed my return to a better fighting weight, with strength and endurance suffering beyond what should be acceptable for a meat eater. This hurts my heart to admit. I was going to let your post go without response because it hit kinda close to home.

A week ago I let a dude outrun me. He was suicidal, fighting with his girlfriend, and smoked me as he ran into the nearby student ghetto. We later learned that he was, of all things, a cat burglar who has been making us look foolish the last few weeks. We have warrants out for him now. I had a couple of suggestions for his mental health issues.

Two nights ago I helped set up a perimeter on a burglary in progress, and jumped the suspect fleeing from the property. I chased him a couple of hundred yards when he started jumping walls. No air unit nor canine units were available. I lost him as he began running through back yards. I found the prick a second time and noticed a really big screwdriver shoved into his waist band. I also found the clothes he discarded in his attempt to get away. Not wanting him to get stupid with the screwdriver I chased him a couple of blocks while vectoring units to him. He was taken into custody with minimal issues. I later got him to confess, legally.

I want to be a meat eater. A few years ago I read First Into Action, the autobiography of a SBS operative starting his career in the Troubles, then moving forward. He wrote that as a teen he was terrified that he was a coward, and joined the Royal Marines as kind of a test to determine if he was in fact a coward. I have worked with so many meat eaters that I am terrified of failing to be one when I really need to be. Those cops have left a big mark upon me about what a cop is, and while I struggle to get back into shape, I am always afraid of coming up wanting when it really matters.

But that is a struggle to be fought daily, and so far I believe I have not disappointed my mentors and friends when it was time to do the job. But that fear of failing to be a meat eater when it is really important keeps me swinging, lack of fitness or not. And the fitness will improve.

Sorry, that was a bit more of a vulnerable moment than I intended. I am tough now. Ready to be a meat eater.

pat

@UNM1136

What an awesome post, Pat. Truly. Being honest with oneself is more than half the battle, imho.

As I posted in the D-Day thread, I'd like to believe that I would rise to the task like those thousands of brave young men storming the beach at Normandy. I don't mind telling you that as a youth I used to have dreams about being found wanting in similar circumstances.

I've certainly never been the biggest or baddest though I held my own in the fights I had in my younger years. Fortunately, as an adult they have been very few and far between, all job related and nothing of great consequence.

I started rock climbing to face my fear of heights. I don't think that entered into my motivation to get into law enforcement. Actually, the incident that propelled me was that a former girlfriend was beaten savagely by a mugger in Brooklyn and my wanting to get revenge.

I've always felt that one could not be brave without fear, and I've come to learn over the years that I'm always bravest when I'm working alongside (and responsible to) my comrades, or in a role where I am either the protector or feeling some responsibility for another. On my own, I'm much less aggressive and more apt to be "judicious". (A good word to substitute for fearful.)

Time and injury have taught me that I'm no longer indestructible and at 66 I'm not as strong or capable as I once was though I still feel like I'm in better condition than most, even those much younger. Still, I'm not going to win many foot races or fail to gas out before a worthy adversary these days. That's just reality and it tempers my judgment.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share some of my own point of view from a part time (and sometimes wannabe) meat eater.

I hope I get the chance to stand you a round or two down the road someday. It'd be my pleasure.

[Totem Polar]

I've always felt that one could not be brave without fear...

#truth.

So long as we are on a tangent, I’ll go way off into the weeds and observe that I had a couple of phobias when I was younger: being in front of people (especially speaking) and sharp objects. Not only have I become reasonably competent at public speaking, but I’ve chosen a life path that has me engaging in extremely complex tasks, in front of people all the time, occasionally by myself. For money, even.

Plus, I used to be an avid knife collector, until I got a grip on being around knives. Still have a healthy respect for those things. Not that I have to tell you anything about that endeavor.

If you’re not afraid of cars and traffic, there is no triumph in crossing a street when the crosswalk signal lights up. Just ask someone who is afraid about the challenge, though. Same with claustrophobia and going to the top of the St. Louis arch... the list goes on. Bravery is found—and lost—in the strangest places and circumstances.

[UNM1136]

#truth.

Bravery is found—and lost—in the strangest places and circumstances.

And the straw that broke the camel's back is amazingly, annoyingly, embarrassingly small.

pat

[Wendell]

On Monday, Kyle Kashuv, 18, posted a lengthy Twitter thread explaining that, three months after being accepted into the Ivy League university’s class of 2023, Harvard decided to rescind his admission. The decision, he said, is due to posts and messages he shared with fellow students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School two years ago, before the Feb. 14, 2018 shooting that killed 17 people and propelled him and his classmates into the national spotlight.
https://time.com/5608514/harvard-par...r-kyle-kashuv/

[Bart Carter]

On Monday, Kyle Kashuv, 18, posted a lengthy Twitter thread explaining that, three months after being accepted into the Ivy League university’s class of 2023, Harvard decided to rescind his admission. The decision, he said, is due to posts and messages he shared with fellow students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School two years ago, before the Feb. 14, 2018 shooting that killed 17 people and propelled him and his classmates into the national spotlight.
https://time.com/5608514/harvard-par...r-kyle-kashuv/

So, when he was a stupid 16 year old, posting shock texts with his buds that they thought were funny, his admission was rescinded? This is the guy that promoted the 2nd when leftest kids were anti-gun. When this was first brought up, he immediately posted about his remorse at doing stupid things and apologized. Then the propaganda press started a campaign against him with many haranguing Harvard to dump him.

There are felons attending Harvard and because a kid said something stupid he is banned. This is so wrong.