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Thread: Documented LEO use of Knives

  1. #31
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Well, I did not document as use-of-force in a report, because no use-of-force became involved, but did have a knife in-hand during a tactical entry moment. In an area with a number of thefts and burglaries, using stolen vans of the general E350 type, we approached such a parked, stolen van. The rear doors were slightly ajar, held by bungie cord. The only way to approach unseen by potential occupants was from the rear. I held my karambit folder in the “extended” grip, which means the ring was on my left index finger. This allowed my left hand to be useful as a support hand for my duty pistol, being held in my right hand. Upon reaching the doors, I held my pistol one-handed in a High #2, averted so as not to point the muzzle toward my left hand/arm, and hooked the bungie with the karambit, being held in my extended left hand. I then stepped rearward, which cut the bungie as it drew tightly across the blade, then moved my left hand back to its role support-hand role, and again extended my pistol. The karambit remained on my left index finger, where it did not interfere with handling the pistol. The van was found unoccupied, so no documentable gun-point situation occurred, and therefore no use-of-force documented.

    The details? Well, it was an east-west street, in Houston, Texas, probably Johnson or Edwards Street, several blocks west of Houston Avenue. I remember my duty pistol was my P229R DAK, which I started carrying in November 2004, and carried until October 2015. My unit number would have been 1A54N or 91A99. I very much doubt I have any notes, because I do not remember being the primary unit. (Hurricane Harvey made most of my old notes and copies into a mushy mess, anyway.) Now that I am retired, I cannot send anything from a houstontx.gov account, which limits my helpfulness.

    Anecdote: While it was almost certainly not documented, and it occurred before I was an LEO, one of my mentors told me that he had used a knife to negotiate a surrender. The disturbed individual was holding a knife, and dared one or more deputies to shoot him. My mentor unfolded HIS knife, which changed the playing field; the disturbed individual may have been ready to die by police gunfire, but was not prepared to be cut, so he dropped his knife, and surrendered, while protesting the unfairness of my mentor’s unusual tactic. (To be clear, I would not recommend this, especially in this day of body-worn video cameras, and everbody and their dog recording us with smart phones, go-pros, and drones.)

  2. #32
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I carry a benchmade SOP-C knife on my vest and one of the senior officers in my squad asked me why I have it. I told him I have it in case I get in an entangled fight on the ground and and I need to go lethal and I can’t get to my firearm. He then asked if there are any documented LEO uses of knives. I have done some searches on google, but most of the news articles I have found have been why cops should not shoot people with knives. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Use of "senior officers in my squad" implies you're a junior. If so, consider not bothering and just do your thing. If you have to explain the merits of a knife to a grown man, well... I've not cut anyone off me with a knife, but I've cut incalculable ropes, cords, dying wild game, seatbelts, clothing, umbilical cords, sandwiches, fingernails, containers and packages, etc. Some, with lifesaving effect. Utility is the stuff others might understand and don't mark you as a loose cannon waiting to cut someone.
    Last edited by ST911; 02-11-2018 at 02:29 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  3. #33
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    ”I carry a benchmade SOP-C knife on my vest...”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    To be blunt, there is your problem. Get that thing off your vest, or be ready for the unintended consequences.

    We lost the OK to routinely wear external “tactical” vests, while in the normal street patrol uniform, about a year after they were approved, probably because of officers hanging things on the vests. The chief saw me in my Mayflower plate carrier vest, after this change, and said nothing, probably because I kept my vest “slick,” except for the radio holder affixed at low left, just a bit higher than it would be if on my belt.
    Last edited by Rex G; 02-11-2018 at 02:53 PM.

  4. #34

  5. #35
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Though it's only peripherally related, I'm proud to say that the president of Timberline Knives, John Anthon, is an old friend of mine and he is very pro-law enforcement as he served as a reserve deputy in the Buffalo, NY area.

    Some years back he gave me a bunch of knives and sharpening gear to distribute to agents on my job. That's just the kind of guy he is.

    So glad the trooper survived the ordeal...and hope the mutt got all that was coming to him.
    Last edited by blues; 02-13-2018 at 06:43 PM.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  6. #36
    Member Mickey's Avatar
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    Tulsa PD Officer fends off gun grab- http://www.newson6.com/story/2062720...-steal-his-gun

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    To be blunt, there is your problem. Get that thing off your vest, or be ready for the unintended consequences.

    We lost the OK to routinely wear external “tactical” vests, while in the normal street patrol uniform, about a year after they were approved, probably because of officers hanging things on the vests. The chief saw me in my Mayflower plate carrier vest, after this change, and said nothing, probably because I kept my vest “slick,” except for the radio holder affixed at low left, just a bit higher than it would be if on my belt.
    I think the problem might be your agency or chief -

    The SOCP knife is condoned and encouraged at my agency. Our agency supported an agency wide group buy from Benchmade direct. This after one of our deputies was forced to use a knife to defend himself after being shot with his own gun.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamasc...ty_injure.html
    A71593

  8. #38
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
    I think the problem might be your agency or chief -

    The SOCP knife is condoned and encouraged at my agency. Our agency supported an agency wide group buy from Benchmade direct. This after one of our deputies was forced to use a knife to defend himself after being shot with his own gun.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamasc...ty_injure.html
    The problem was not with the agency or chief. The past several chiefs had condoned knives, and the new chief has said nothing to change that. The problem is that citizens see gear hanging on tactical vests, and some can be uncomfortable with it.

    My co-workers knew me as the guy with plenty of knives and guns, but everything was kept low-profile and discreet.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    The problem was not with the agency or chief. The past several chiefs had condoned knives, and the new chief has said nothing to change that. The problem is that citizens see gear hanging on tactical vests, and some can be uncomfortable with it.

    My co-workers knew me as the guy with plenty of knives and guns, but everything was kept low-profile and discreet.
    I think the SOCP is as useful as the come...and about as discreet as well. Probably 99% have no idea what it is. Someday Benchmade will probably make it in navy blue, hunter green, etc. to match outer carriers. Yeah, if somebody is hanging hand grenades and K-bars off their outer carrier, it gives the wrong impression and can lead to "broad changes" that may scoop up some good guys doing a smart thing. And every agency has "that guy."
    Last edited by nwhpfan; 02-14-2018 at 10:37 PM.
    A71593

  10. #40
    Member NMPOPS's Avatar
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    28 years in LE and the only LE use of a knife of any kind that I am aware of is cutting seat belts and other normal knife use. I personally used one to cut seat belts at wrecks 3 times and one of those was me. (I was hanging upside down in my overturned car. As a detective, yes a carried a knife daily.
    Also as a side note in my career, I investigated more than a few stabbings 1 involved a Buck 110, another involved a SAK and all the remainder involved the use of kitchen cutlery.

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