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Thread: FANTASTIC article on the Dallas PD Shooting

  1. #11
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    I just wonder if some offensive explosive training might be warranted in today's threat environment. I cringed a little reading the discussion on C4 and guessing how much to use, how much det cord it takes to detonate it, and relying solely on over pressure. I was a Combat Engineer and used C4 quite a bit. You can make offensive explosives that don't make shrapnel and don't rely solely on over pressure. With active shooters holing up, suicide bombers, etc. I see no reason to send humans in to the line of fire when a human controlled machine can do the same thing.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCarl View Post
    Only partway through the article, I think it's poorly written Hollywood garbage. Wtf is a high caliber round? An AK-74 is 'superior firepower'?

    The author is good at drama, but this is a TV script, written by someone who doesn't know guns, which leads me to believe they don't know police procedure, cops, law, etc.

    Harumph.
    Being a journalist isn't about being an expert, as nobody is an expert in every field. It's about talking to experts and actual participants, then recounting their story. I think the author did a pretty damn good job of doing that.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I cringed a little reading the discussion on C4 and guessing how much to use,
    I just refer to the works of Colonel Kratman, "Factor 'P'".
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  4. #14
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I just wonder if some offensive explosive training might be warranted in today's threat environment.
    I would say yes, along with some other paradigm changes.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drang View Post
    I just refer to the works of Colonel Kratman, "Factor 'P'".
    The good Col. was blowing up buildings in other people's countries. When it's the community college in your town, things are different.

    I was thinking the same thing, regarding offensive use of demo. We're likely to see this sort of thing again, and blowing somebody out of a hole may be called for. These guys kind of winged it, and it worked out, but I wonder if people are planning for this sort of thing.
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  6. #16
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    There's a good chance this will be the basis of an assignment or two for my students.

    Excellent writing!

    The author may not know guns that well, but he doesn't sound nearly as ignorant as many journalists out there. In the otherwise excellent "Columbine," there's the lovely "semiautomatic submachine gun," in reference to a Hi-Point carbine. Heck, the "Oxford Companion to WWII" has errors such as saying the diameter of a .303 bullet is 9mm. And Oxford is supposed to be the gold standard of reference books. I'm grateful when writers at least avoid hideous errors of fact about firearms if they aren't enthusiasts. Sadly, ignorance on technical/mechcanical matters is widely tolerated in non-technical writing, for the most part.
    Last edited by Baldanders; 02-06-2018 at 07:30 PM.

  7. #17
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    I’ve been avoiding reading this since it was posted. I just finished reading it, and I’m glad I did. Thanks for sharing it.

    JR1572

  8. #18
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    The good Col. was blowing up buildings in other people's countries. When it's the community college in your town, things are different.
    Right. I remember the "when in doubt for which formula to use, remember P=Plenty" at demo school and laughing along with everyone else...but there's times you want just this particular thing fucked up without fucking up every other thing surrounding said thing.

    I've never been tasked with killing someone with a robot delivered explosive, but a water hammer would be where I'd start my testing. As breaching charge, it's a way to use hydraulic force to open doors without making a lot of splinters and shrapnel, as well as multiplying the explosive. I suspect it could be used in an anti-personnel role more effectively than pure over pressure when there's a hesitation to use shrapnel. It would also be a short range affect, reduce the chances of setting a fire, etc.
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  9. #19
    Member KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the article. It was informative, but I got a little annoyed at some of the sensationalism.

    At the KCMTOA conference a few weeks ago, one of the DPD SWAT guys who was in the college did a debrief of the event.
    Based on his account, I don't think the composition and design of the charge was quite as "fly by the seat of our pants" as the article made it sound.



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  10. #20
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    Speaking as an explosive breacher, the problem is that LE use of explosives has been confined to breaching. Considering the problems with estimating overpressure in a confined environment, there is not a good way to construct a "reasonable" charge that won't bring down half of the building. They were concerned with not letting him out and continuing his rampage, and they had to keep that perimeter. They also wanted verification that he was down without having to bring in construction equipment to dig through rubble and 'hope they got him'.

    I am curious why there was not more effort into frag for a traditional IED. If we are using this as deadly force, why not give ourselves a backup option to ensure this is a one shot option.

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