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Thread: Reloading .45 Colt for indoor use and bowling pins.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    In post no.18 above, Bill replied that maybe N110 is not good for reduced loads. Win 296 and H110(identical but different labels)have the same slow burning rate as does N110. Under no circumstances should should Win 296 or H110 be used in reduced loads. Safety is one reason.
    Avoiding reduced loads with slow burning powders is a good safety practice. If there are exceptions, they escape me. I assume that N110 and the other 110s share similarities, but I'm out of date on the N version.
    I agree with you in regards to not reducing the loads below what's in the books. However, Hornady has the starting load for the VV N110 with the 180 XTP at 10.5 grains going up to 11.8.
    Even at 10.9 it was around 200 FPS slower than Hornady's data. I am going to try 11.1, 11.3, and 11.4 to see if it comes alive. We are also going to run those loads thru his nearly identical S&W revolver. If the N110 does not get closer to 1000 FPS with the 11.3 grains we'll switch to Alliant 2400.

    I'm learning a lot here and I thank you all for the help.
    Once these 180 gr XTP bullets are gone I'll be switching to another bullet and powder that'll hopefully give me less problems.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledviking View Post
    I am going to try 11.1, 11.3, and 11.4 to see if it comes alive.
    I looked at VV, Hornady 10th Edition, and Lyman's 50th Edition.

    Interestingly, the Lyman data for 180gr is 10.8gr to 13.5gr (compressed). Velocity through a 4" test barrel is 814 and 999fps.

    I think you're chasing your tail with 0.1gr increments. You didn't mention if you're using magnum primers or not. Is it cold where you live?

    While the data are somewhat different, you're only playing with about 150fps from starting to max loads. If you're doing everything right and not getting published velocities you're not going to get there.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  3. #23
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    I'm not qualified to criticize Hornady's data but suggest that you review available online data to get an overview. When I read your posts, I thought that Hornady's maximum figure was low. But I've never used the N version of 110.

    Keep your N110 but consider moving to 2400. I think that you'll have an easier time arriving at your goal. Later you can revisit use of the N110. My use of Win 296 was always full house. My practice was to reduce maximum published data by 10% as a starting point. As Hambo said, working up from the low number in .1 grain units is a chase your tail activity. The reason is the very slow burning rate. For heavy bullets like 180 grains in .357, the very slow 4227 powder by either maker is a forgiving powder. You'll run out of room in the before you can screw up. Accuracy would be excellent but with medium velocity level. But it does not run through a measure with the great precision that ball powder will. For me this fact is not a big deal.
    Last edited by willie; 01-29-2018 at 10:16 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    I looked at VV, Hornady 10th Edition, and Lyman's 50th Edition.

    Interestingly, the Lyman data for 180gr is 10.8gr to 13.5gr (compressed). Velocity through a 4" test barrel is 814 and 999fps.

    I think you're chasing your tail with 0.1gr increments. You didn't mention if you're using magnum primers or not. Is it cold where you live?

    While the data are somewhat different, you're only playing with about 150fps from starting to max loads. If you're doing everything right and not getting published velocities you're not going to get there.
    I'm new to reloading so I believe it's prudent for me to cautiously approach the max listed by Hornady at 11.8 grains.

    That Lyman data is exactly what I've been looking for; some data to corroborate VV's data. Thank you!
    So, it appears that N110 is not the best powder I need for achieving the 950 to 1000 FPS I am aiming for.
    I'm using magnum primers and the temperature was around 50 degrees F. when used the chrono.

    We are going to try the 2400 next.

    Once again all of the info you gentlemen are providing helps me a lot. Thank you.

  5. #25
    I suggest you do some reading about slow, medium and fast powders. 2400 isn't ideal for reduced loads either. Something like Unique is an example of a medium powder that is good for reduced loads. Also, all reloading data is not created equal. Check several sources, including powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers and other online sources.

  6. #26
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    ^^^ Indeed. 2400 is generally upper medium to magnum level powder, though its used some in medium level loads and reduced rifle loads with cast bullets (its technically a rifle powder).

    Unique has a reputation for being dirty, but Ive found when used in medium power range and decent load density loads is relatively clean. Red Dot or similar may be better for lower end loads or loads not taking up much space in the case.
    Last edited by Malamute; 01-29-2018 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #27

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    I suggest you do some reading about slow, medium and fast powders. 2400 isn't ideal for reduced loads either. Something like Unique is an example of a medium powder that is good for reduced loads. Also, all reloading data is not created equal. Check several sources, including powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers and other online sources.

    I thought I was doing the safe and sensible thing by using Hornady's listed powders for their 180 gr XTP bullet. I've attached a picture of the 9th edition of Hornady's book.
    Most loads elsewhere I've found for a 180 grain bullet is for a different bullet.

    I've read it's not a good idea to use loads for other bullets of the same weight? On Hodgdon's website they only show a Nosler Partition bullet in that weight. Is it safe to use their data for the Nosler 180 gr Partition bullet for the Hornady 180 gr XTP bullet?

    I am not sure as to what you mean by reduced loads? Most of the loads listed in the Hornady book is putting the velocity I want close to the max loads of the different powders.

    Looking at Alliant's website for Unique there isn't a load listed for a 180 grain bullet.

    Handloads.com lists the 180 gr bullets but I don't see the XTP listed. Again, is it safe to use a load listed there for a different bullet manufacturer?

    Again, I'm leaning but it's quite confusing at times. I really appreciate all of your information.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    I suggest you do some reading about slow, medium and fast powders. 2400 isn't ideal for reduced loads either. Something like Unique is an example of a medium powder that is good for reduced loads. Also, all reloading data is not created equal. Check several sources, including powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers and other online sources.
    I've read the Sierra reloading manual, the Hornady manual, Accurate No. 2, and Patrick Sweeney's Reloading for Handgunners. Not a whole lot of info regarding slow, medium, or fast powders.

    According to the Sierra manual, 5th edition, the Unique load of 6.6 grains is max and that puts the velocity at 1000 FPS for a 180 gr Sierra FPJ match bullet. Considering that I'm lookinh for a velocity somewhere between 950 and 1000 FPS isn't that too close to the max powder load for a beginner reloader?

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledviking View Post
    I've read it's not a good idea to use loads for other bullets of the same weight? Again, is it safe to use a load listed there for a different bullet manufacturer?
    When I started reloading thirty years ago nobody thought twice about using 158gr jacketed bullet data with all 158gr jacketed bullets. Companies do a lot more pressure testing than they used to and noticed that pressure isn't always the same with different bullets. Is it safe? You need to decide that.

    Back to your 180gr .357 loads. If you look at the data in your pic, 1000-1100fps is the top end. All the powders fall in the same part of burn rate charts. What does that tell us? Engineers with pressure testing equipment determined that when using slow burning powders, 1000-1100fps is all you can get out of a .357 magnum with a 180gr bullet. Want more speed with less than the maximum charge? Drop to 158gr or use 170gr lead bullets. In the real world, a 180 at 950fps and a 158gr at 1200fps will both get the job done.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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