Pistol squirming/twisting in hand during trigger press (P30 LEM)?

[RevolverRob]

I'm starting to get frustrated with this problem. I start the trigger stroke on my P30 LEM (V1) and reach "the wall" where it stacks - As I push through the wall, I'm finding that as the trigger breaks, the front sight dips low and right. I first noticed this a couple of months ago in dry fire and it was ugly during my last live fire session (~3.5 weeks ago). Thinking I was anticipating or heeling, I focused on ball and dummy drills - not a flinch problem. On slow, smooth, pushes, when the gun breaks, I'm twitching it right, even sitting on the bench. I tried various combinations of side panels and backstraps, I currently have all Smalls installed, because that's the grip that "feels" best.

Earlier today, I think I finally found the problem - as I reach the break, the stacking weight of the break is causing me to move more trigger finger onto the trigger, torquing the gun to the right and causing the dip. To try to solve this - I got a vise-like grip on the gun and squeezed the trigger as smooth as possible and I found it balanced out a little. Problem is two fold - First - I can't grip my gun like that constantly, the carpal tunnel in my wrists prevents it. Seriously, ten dry-fires with that super tight grip and I had to pop two Aleve. Second, it feels - almost like - I can't get enough grip on the gun.

So my question for P30 and LEM shooters (both) - have you had issues with the pistol squirming during the break? Solutions?

For a reference point, I broke out the 1911 and did 20 reps on it, then 20 on the P30 as I normally grip it, then 20 on the 1911. P30 sight dips and moves, 1911 is rock solid...So it's not (entirely) a trigger pushing software problem - it's a combo software/hardware issue.

[shiv]

Maybe I missed, but are you left or right handed?


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[RevolverRob]

Maybe I missed, but are you left or right handed?


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Right handed.

[Matt O]

Sounds like a combination of grip pressure and trigger press linearity. If you can’t get away with more of the former due to tendinitis/carpal tunnel issues, you’ll need to make sure your trigger press is as straight to the rear as possible.

For me though, triggers that stack are hard to overcome without extreme grip pressure. Have you tried any exercises to alleviate the tendon-related issues? I found overall arm strengthening (e.g. lifting, pushups, etc.) along with forearm conditioning (e.g. theraband twists) helped tremendously with my tendinitis.


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[1slow]

I have been carrying and shooting the HK P30 LEM 9mm for several years 30,000 rounds or so.

I have big bony hands (size11 nomex gloves) I use the smallest grip inserts. If I firmly the grip front to back with my shooting hand and crush it side to side with my support hand it moves less. I pull the trigger with the
end pad straight back.

I find that the boxier grips, like on the HK USP, are easier to keep from squirming than the "more ergonomic" grips. USP also has rougher checkering. You might try grip tape.

I like the P30 in spite of the ergo grips.

You might try a USP match hybrid LEM. (Thanks GJM.)

[wtturn]

You need to do what you can to fix whatever musculoskeletal pathology you're dealing with first.

From the mechanical side of things, you should experiment with different grip inserts to see if a particular combination gives you more purchase on the gun.

Grip as hard as you can with the weak hand short of introducing tremors and relax the strong hand a degree while focusing your conscious mind on pressing the trigger straight back through the break. Pay no mind to creep or wall or anything else. Just pull through it. You should "finish flat" at the rear.

You are finding the wall and then pressing through, which is the source of your problem. Pay it no mind.

You may also need to experiment with how much finger you have on the trigger. Chances are higher that you need more finger, not less.

Hope this helps.

[RevolverRob]

"Fixing" my carpal tunnel isn't really in the cards. Only endoscopic surgery will cure it (the nerve damage is done). I do a lot of hand/arm/wrist exercises regularly. Grip strength is a problem, for sure - but it's not just a grip, but length issue.

Taking into account @1slow's ideas of "boxier guns squirm less". I stripped the backstrap entirely off the gun. And like magic thirty presses of varying speed later, no more front sight dip. But I can't shoot the gun without a backstrap (the blood blister on my palm says so at least.

So I busted out the Dremel (yea...that happened). And put tool to $800 plastic. I cut down my Medium backstrap to compare directly to the small.

Here's the cut down strap, you can see how much i actually cut when you see where I left all of the material near the pin. I did fifty presses - no sight dip - no need to crush the grip.



When I go to the range next I'll compared side-by-side the small and my new "extra small" strap.

[1slow]

Cool, let us know how it works !

[LOKNLOD]

From the mechanical side of things, you should experiment with different grip inserts to see if a particular combination gives you more purchase on the gun.

You may also need to experiment with how much finger you have on the trigger. Chances are higher that you need more finger, not less.

Agreed on both counts.

If adding more finger at the end is causing you to torque, starting with more finger so you don’t adjust mid-pull may do it. I’ve had to figure out something similar with Berettas.

[YVK]

I can understand right displacement with trigger finger shenanigans but I can't understand low.