Practicing the NSR (non-standard response) for defensive shooting

[JodyH]

I've gone back to practicing the NSR (non-standard response) for the majority of my range time.
The NSR is firing a random number of shots per draw/target rather than a set number.
For me that number is usually 0 to 5.

I first heard about the NSR in a Jeff Gonzales pistol class back in 2002 or so, and it makes sense to not have a 2 shots per draw habit ingrained because outside of USPSA/IDPA 2 shots may not be enough to "neutralize" or may be two too many.
The reason I'm devoting more range time to it is I've found myself in a rut of not only firing with every draw, but automatically firing two shots per draw and then either transitioning or evaluating due to most of my shooting under pressure lately has been in competition and that's the most efficient way to shoot targets in matches.

To break that rut I've gone back to shooting anywhere from zero to 5 or 6 shots per target at the buzzer unless it's a specific drill like a Bill or FAST.
For a while I found myself hesitating to take the third shot or worse having a hard time not taking the first shot.
When I set up multiple target practice stages/scenarios the "2 shots per" habit is really hard to break.

Speaking of shooting with a timer "buzzer". I've also gone back to using random visual or auditory stimulus as my "go signal" in addition to using a timer buzzer.
The auditory signals are when there range I use is fairly empty I'll wait for someone in another bay to fire their gun and that's my "go".
For a visual I'll pick out something like a styrofoam cup on the berm and when the wind moves it that's my "go" (works good out here where the wind is almost always going to gust every few minutes).

Just something I've added back into my range time and interested in others thoughts on the subject.

[rob_s]

The NSR is a topic I used to be really interested in. Often in my drills nights I would call a drill that required the student to fire "some number of rounds" and tried to get people to mentally decide to stop rather than counting to a stop. This had the added benefit at a drills night that some people want to shoot a lot, some people want to shoot less, and we could accommodate both groups this way.

Relating it strictly to "gunfighting", I came to the conclusion that if we're going to use visual cues to start shooting then we should do the same for stopping shooting. Rather than just deciding to stop shooting, have some visual cue that prompts you for that decision. I started down a path of various reactive and disappearing targets, as well as targets that became covered by non-threats.

I'm not, however, entirely convinced that training to shoot cardboard a fixed number of times is a problem, as I'm not sure I've seen documentation of that leading to a real-world problem (despite the anti-competition folks saying there is, I've never seen it), and in either case one way to break out of that is to simply run drills with various fixed counts. The IDPA club I used to shoot with did a lot of "3 per target" and "4 per target" stuff that I liked.

[SAWBONES]

Sounds like a sensible way to disrupt potentially-disadvantageous practice patterns.

I can definitely appreciate that kind of thinking, since for some time now the bulk of my range practice has been to repetitively draw and shoot singles, since I recognise that presentation from the CCW holster will be the manner in which I would actually need to shoot for protection of self or loved ones, BUT it does tend to reinforce the habit of single shots.

What's your decision-maker on how many shots to take per draw?

[LSP552]

It’s easy to fall into a standard double tap mode if that’s all we train. I agree with mixing things up to prevent that. I take both a technical and tactical approach to my range time. I don’t “think” it matters if you combine these on a single trip or alternate.

I draw a distinction between working to improve my technical skill and fighting. Drills and benchmarks for improving skill are just that. There are a ton of drills, thoughts and techniques for improving technical skills.

When I work on fighting skills, I mix draws and from a low ready. Acting and reacting to a stimulus, preferably visual is what I think works best at reducing a shoot two and wait and see mentality. I want to ingrain shoot until the threat isn’t a threat, and shoot at a speed appropriate for the environment, target and distance.

Having access to a turning target system is outstanding, shooting as long the target is visible. I think stimulus for stopping is every bit as important as for starting. A timer set to par times, or a buddy who can provide start and stop signals are also useful.

Sometimes we just have to make do with what we have. The key is, IMO, realizing what we are trying to accomplish and understanding the limitations of our training environment.

You can also make an argument for automatic failure drills as long as your par time/stimulus allows.

This has the potential to be a great PF thread. Thanks for starting the topic.

[shiv]

While the NSR is interesting and certainly useful in context, I don’t believe it could become a standard practice to dominate my range time.

On the range, I practice skills. I do this to get better at those specific skills as most all drills aren’t realistic. Just as force on force reps do not improve specific fundamentals. Skills cannot be quantified and qualified with the NSR. For instance, if I’m there to practice draw, I want to know how long that draw takes. If I’m shooting a random number of rounds, or that draw is initiated by a random visual cue, I cannot objectively measure my reps. Same for magazine changes, transitions, etc.

While a good concept, I believe it would be a better practice for force on force or combative the than for skills.

This is just my humble opinion as a new guy.


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[41magfan]

I like to set my Poppers heavy so that it takes multiple hits (in the right place within a certain time frame) to knock them over. It establishes and reinforces good discipline in the fundamentals (at speed) since misses and marginal hits will result in the thing never going down.

[GJM]

Hunting gives you the opportunity to experience NSR shooting scenarios.

[LSP552]

Hunting gives you the opportunity to experience NSR shooting scenarios.

Absolutely. I’ve never been a shoot once and wait guy. Can’t count the number of times my Dad dogged me for wasting meat.

If it’s kicking, I’m shooting. Goes double for shooting pigs.

[GJM]

Absolutely. I’ve never been a shoot once and wait guy. Can’t count the number of times my Dad dogged me for wasting meat.

If it’s kicking, I’m shooting. Goes double for shooting pigs.

Is there any Spanish blood in your woodpile? The reason I ask, is because my PH in Africa told me that Spaniards get absolutely crazy around warthogs, and they physically have to take their rifle and ammunition away from them or all sorts of craziness starts.

[LSP552]

Is there any Spanish blood in your woodpile? The reason I ask, is because my PH in Africa told me that Spaniards get absolutely crazy around warthogs, and they physically have to take their rifle and ammunition away from them or all sorts of craziness starts.

Nope, just a transplanted Texan who believes bullets are cheap. And to keep on target, we shouldn’t take chances with things that could hurt us.