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Thread: Practicing the NSR (non-standard response) for defensive shooting

  1. #11
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiv View Post
    On the range, I practice skills. I do this to get better at those specific skills as most all drills aren’t realistic. Just as force on force reps do not improve specific fundamentals. Skills cannot be quantified and qualified with the NSR. For instance, if I’m there to practice draw, I want to know how long that draw takes. If I’m shooting a random number of rounds, or that draw is initiated by a random visual cue, I cannot objectively measure my reps. Same for magazine changes, transitions, etc.
    That's where detailed range notes come into play.
    Every draw to fire (no matter how many followup shots) is trackable when you're use a timer.
    Detailed notes will also give you data on your 2, 3, 4, 5, however many shot strings including times to first shot and splits.
    I fact I'd say a data set that includes notes with various strings from 1-6 gives you more to go on than just a set with draw 2's and Bill Drills.
    Draw 2's tend to turn into a test of finger speed ("double taps" so to speak) not necessarily true sight tracking. Bill Drills often turn into rhythm shooting instead of sight tracking and grip stability.
    Varying the number of shots while still tracking it with a timer gives you a picture of what you do all the time.

    Of course visual cue starts can't be tracked, but IMO practicing to react to a visual cue is worth doing. Even if you can't quantify performance gains you can definitely qualify them after you've done it enough (much like playing the "hand slap game", you may not know exactly how much faster your reaction is but you do know you're not getting slapped as much).
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  2. #12
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    Practicing the NSR (non-standard response) for defensive shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    That's where detailed range notes come into play.
    Every draw to fire (no matter how many followup shots) is trackable when you're use a timer.
    Detailed notes will also give you data on your 2, 3, 4, 5, however many shot strings including times to first shot and splits.
    I fact I'd say a data set that includes notes with various strings from 1-6 gives you more to go on than just a set with draw 2's and Bill Drills.
    Draw 2's tend to turn into a test of finger speed ("double taps" so to speak) not necessarily true sight tracking. Bill Drills often turn into rhythm shooting instead of sight tracking and grip stability.
    Varying the number of shots while still tracking it with a timer gives you a picture of what you do all the time.

    Of course visual cue starts can't be tracked, but IMO practicing to react to a visual cue is worth doing. Even if you can't quantify performance gains you can definitely qualify them after you've done it enough (much like playing the "hand slap game", you may not know exactly how much faster your reaction is but you do know you're not getting slapped as much).
    While, yes you can track some things, such as time to first shot. But is that the best use of time and ammunition to improve your draw times? I find I get more results focusing on skills rather than “when the cup moves I’m going to draw and fire a random number of rounds”.

    I think random starts from the timer is important to avoid gaming and also recognizing the difference between skills, combatives, drills, competition, and the real world.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by shiv; 01-21-2018 at 03:59 PM.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Hunting gives you the opportunity to experience NSR shooting scenarios.
    Amen. I had a porcupine last year absorb four doses of 135gr +P Crit Duty. Animals don't care what supposed to happen.
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Glad to see the inclusion of hunting for its preparation value.

    The copper who coached me in judo when I started was in a shooting with a mentally ill subject around that time. It eventually deteriorated to where he had to shoot which was 2 rds and immediately re-holster, he did and that's when she cut him. He had to draw again and fire a couple more rounds to end that. He said it came from the conditioning of the time.

    Randomy set poppers are "a" way. Ron Fielder & Quitman Dennis out of the Nashville area have a computer run reactive steel set that is quite random. It isn't cheap but it will make stay on the sights and the target until the problem is resolved.

  5. #15
    Ron is a great guy and was one of the instructors at my 599.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #16
    Ron is local to me and teaches remote Gunsite classes out here in TN.

    I tend to lean towards the Tom Givens idea of keep shooting until the bad guy, “falls off the front sight.”

    Either they’ve moved which will require a reassessment and reaquirement of the sights, or the bad guy is down, and will again require reassessment as to whether any more rounds are required. In the past year, I’ve really become more acutely aware of my shooting speed and cadence, and bring cognizant of not shooting faster than my wheels can turn.


    civiliandefender.com

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman A. House DDS View Post
    In the past year, I’ve really become more acutely aware of my shooting speed and cadence, and bring cognizant of not shooting faster than my wheels can turn.


    civiliandefender.com
    This is interesting. Lately I have been focusing on shooting without regard to my perception of time or any desired cadence. Instead of time, which I see as an unhelpful intrusion on my shooting performance, I have focused shooting by reference to sights and trigger. I check time as part of every run, but only afterwards.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #18
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    Guilty of an automatic 2 shots myself. Not really an issue now days but I first noticed this in a class when I would fire 2 rounds when another number was needed if the drill was hard enough to require concentration on something else.

  9. #19
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Northern Mississippi
    A definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result. If I deliver 2-4 solid, high chest shots and the target is still there, I see no point in continuing to fire into the chest. If, after the solid chest shots there is still a target, I would prefer to track up and shoot between the eyes if they are still there when my sights track up. I am also concerned that if I program myself to fire a larger number of rounds, the target may drop before I realize I need to stop shooting and I may launch one or two wild rounds into whatever or whoever is behind the threat. Rather than fire NSR's, I'd prefer to work on 3-D problems so that I have a reasonable chance of dinging the spine in my initial volley to the chest.
    • It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
    • If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
    • "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG

  10. #20
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    South Florida
    This is one reason that I really like the VTAC 1-5 drill. Not only does it get you into the mindset that two shots may not always do the trick, or even be necessary, it’s a great drill for working on sight tracking. Kyle Lamb points out in his demonstration video on YouTube something to the effect of “a lot of people can shoot 1 or 2 shots pretty fast and accurately but not very many people can shoot 3, 4 or 5 shots fast and accurately.”

    The 1-5 drill is a little hard on round count but I try to always do 3-5 reps of it when I go to the range.

    Jared Restons OIS is an excellent example of how people don’t always stop doing what their doing when they should. The guy he shot was dead about five times over but his brain didn’t know it yet so he kept fighting until a CNS shot was made.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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