Scatter Gun Ammo

[JodyH]

I'm certainly no expert on shotguns. While I've taken a few classes, I wouldn't step up and teach it... that would be ridiculous. But there have been enough instances of inadvertent downrange injuries & deaths -- DocGKR and Tom gave us four already --

Considering the low hit percentages involved in LE shootings, the number of downrange injuries and deaths is statistically minute.

[ToddG]

Not the same.
Your example has the 4-6 rounds spread out over more than a second.
The shotgun is firing all pellets simultaneously.

That's fair. But your reasoning is about hit percentages, not time. Given the spread of the #2 pistol, it, too, would be more likely to land some hits and some misses in anyone's hands given a difficult shot whereas the accurate gun will put the bullets where I aim them... for better or worse.

What's more effective on a low percentage fast moving target... like a bird... a shotgun or a semi-auto rifle.

How about a low percentage fast moving dangerous target? Not a lot of folks choosing birdshot for lion and cape buffalo.

[JodyH]

How about a low percentage fast moving dangerous target? Not a lot of folks choosing birdshot for lion and cape buffalo.

That's due to the limitations of the caliber (not enough penetration), not accuracy limitations.

[JodyH]

That's fair. But your reasoning is about hit percentages, not time. Given the spread of the #2 pistol, it, too, would be more likely to land some hits and some misses in anyone's hands given a difficult shot whereas the accurate gun will put the bullets where I aim them... for better or worse.

You have 1 second to make a hit on a 6" plate at 20 yards from low ready.
Would you rather have a pistol or a shotgun?
Would you rather that shotgun have a 9-pellet 4" pattern or a 8" pattern?

The hypothetical scenarios pro and con are endless.
The main thing is to know your gun and know the reasons why you have it set up the way you do, both the limitations and advantages.
I'm comfortable with my shotgun set up and loaded the way it is based on the role I intend for it to fill.

[ToddG]

You have 1 second to make a hit on a 6" plate at 20 yards from low ready.
Would you rather have a pistol or a shotgun?
Would you rather that shotgun have a 9-pellet 4" pattern or a 8" pattern?

If putting enough lead on steel to knock over a plate is my only goal, and I'm shooting into a berm with zero downrange concerns, then it depends on how heavy the plate is. If it will fall to a single pellet, I want a spread. If it needs 6+ pellets to be effective, I want a tight pattern.

How many pellets does it take to stop a motivated threat? No way of knowing, but I'd rather have more than less hit the target.

The hypothetical scenarios pro and con are endless.
The main thing is to know your gun and know the reasons why you have it set up the way you do, both the limitations and advantages.

Agreed.

[FotoTomas]

I like my Federal Flight control BUT Jody makes some good points as well.

In my case deploying a shotgun will be either home defense or a rare appearance on duty at the part time job. (Competition is mostly birdshot and slugs) Being accurate at the part time job on the street is more my style. On the other hand the close range options at home based on my fields of fire might make me reconsider the Remington and Winchester buckshot in the locker that about doubles the size of the Federal patterns. I can easily see differing loadouts for the job at hand.

HD vs LE has some distinct differences worth evaluating in more depth.

Sounds like a trip to the range is in order!

[David Armstrong]

How about a low percentage fast moving dangerous target? Not a lot of folks choosing birdshot for lion and cape buffalo.

FWIW, when I was over there the gun/load of choice for going into the brush after leopard was a 12 gauge with 00 Buck.

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=DocGKR;5755]I am VERY excited about Federal's long delayed decision to finally produce a good tactical #1 Buckshot load using the Flight Control Wad and reduced recoil loading; if done correctly, this will be the premier close range LE and personal defense shotgun load available.QUOTE]

Chock full of WIN - I prefered to use #1 before the advent of reduced recoil loads. I will cheerfully return to it ASAP. It's just a case of spacial geometry that you can fill a 12 ga hull more efficiently with .30 balls than .33 balls

[Chuck Haggard]

I actually like the pattern density of the Flightcontrol loads.

Many of the fleeting targets one might get in a running gunfight include hands, elbows and feet sticking out from cover. Being able to pepper the shit out of those opportunities is a good thing.

With an unobstructed target, and a quality hit, a tight pattern keeps all of the pellets near each other for max effect.

[jmjames]

Trying to not start a new thread on the topic... mods, feel free to split if it should be a new thread though...

For HD purposes, should I be using slugs or buckshot? Or a mix in the mag?

Does anyone have any data on the new Federal LE slugs, if slugs are the right load for HD?

Right now, it looks like the right load is Federal LE #1.

Thanks!

J.Ja