Concealed OWB Retention

[ssb]

Policy changes at work mean I've got to change a thing or two with how I carry.

Parameters:
- This is not a legal NPE. I carry under statutory authority and have a POST firearms certification.
- This is something of a social NPE. I am required by policy to keep the firearm completely concealed in court or anywhere else where I'm in an official capacity, as well as lunches, etc. As a practical matter, I do not want my jury pool, a defendant, reporter, member of the public, or frankly some asshole defense attorney noticing (and especially commenting on the fact) that I'm armed.
- My boss encourages us to carry and it's acceptable office culture. There is no requirement that the gun be concealed in the office unless I'm meeting with a victim or witness (TL;DR: I can take my jacket off).

Recently an ADA was assaulted by an inmate in open court. He was not armed, but based on that situation concerns were voiced about those of us who do carry losing a gun in a scuffle should something like that occur again.

In a way I get it -- this would be the second time an attorney has been assaulted by an inmate in a courtroom in two months. The last assault involved a murder defendant and the victim was stunned and apparently unable to put up a defense after the first blow. Had he got to a gun things could have been much, much worse.
There are several contributing factors for all of this and they're (hopefully) being handled appropriately, but that's neither here nor there. But, doesn't mean I'm in love with the requirement as I'll be going from bespoke leather bought specifically for this purpose to a $40ish plastic holster. Unofficially, my bitch is that I've not seen a retention holster I consider concealable for my purposes. Nevertheless, I don't make the rules.

The guy who has the ear of the guy who makes the rules likes him some SERPA and the word initially was that it must have a finger-actuated button like the SERPA. I've confirmed that the ALS is an acceptable substitute. I was told no thumb break holsters. I don't know that the GLS would satisfy the requirement, and frankly after playing with one I'm not in love with it from a gun grab perspective anyway.

Policy requirements:
- Holster must have active retention.
- Holster/gun must remain concealed at all times when outside the office in an official capacity

Dress requirements:
- Business attire

Other considerations:
- For policy reasons the P30SK and a J-Frame are the guns I'm stuck with for the time being. My intent is to continue to primarily carry the P30SK and use the J-Frame for pocket carry needs. I made a deliberate choice for the P30SK owing to my concealment needs.

My gut says go with an ALS holster, but again concealment is a concern. My jackets are well-tailored (waist suppression). I previously used a high-riding OWB. Knowing all of that, what is the best model to go with? Does anybody have experience concealing something like that in a suit?

ETA: For the 7TS series is this a workable option?

[JodyH]

Safariland 7378 7TS

[CWE]

The ALS holsters are great but, the GLS from Safariland will sit a little closer to the body. Here is a thread from SouthNarc about it:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Safariland-537

[Larry T]

Safariland 7378 7TS

This is what I use for what you're talking about. It's not as concealable as a Bravo BCA with pancake loops or a Raven Perun (I've been told), but the 7378 with belt loop attachment is pretty tight-riding. I actually hate the belt loop attachment and prefer the paddle. The belt loop attachment is a bear to get a belt through and once on, there's no adjustment fore or aft unless you loosen the belt. Some of the Tacti-nazis crap on the paddle as not being retention-proof, but if the paddle is worn correctly and hooked under the belt as prescribed, I don't think it's going anywhere.

[HeavyDuty]

I’d say a 6377 plus a 6006 is the way to go, but I’m biased - I use them for hood gear where retention is more important to me than absolute concealment which sounds similar to your needs. If Safariland ever figures out a way of making ALS work IWB, I’m so there.

[WobblyPossum]

I use a 6378 with a belt loop for work wearing a suit and tie. Granted, I’m tall and very thin, but I don’t even pretend it’s a concealed setup. My suit jacket covers the gun but does not conceal that there is something large and rigid on my right hip. I’ve never seen an OWB holster with active retention that I’d actually consider concealable to the level I want when I want to conceal a gun.


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[TGS]

The ALS (or similar GLS) will not be a great concealment holster for in a suit, unless you look like a bag of ass with a really slovenly look. Opening up your waist suppression an inch or two can help, but it's still going to print.

My experience mirrors DanM, he described it pretty much perfect. I'm not a very thin guy, however, and have the same experience. I've never seen an agent on my job carry in an ALS/GLS (whether it be a legacy or 7TS) that you couldn't obviously tell they were wearing a gun.

I would seriously consider using a Bianchi 82 or a Safariland 537 GLS, both pancake style. I used the 537 and it works very well for concealment while still giving you a 2nd chance in gun grabs, though admittedly not as much as an ALS. The only reason I stopped using it is because I wanted to use a WML that my wife bought me.

[ssb]

I use a 6378 with a belt loop for work wearing a suit and tie. Granted, I’m tall and very thin, but I don’t even pretend it’s a concealed setup. My suit jacket covers the gun but does not conceal that there is something large and rigid on my right hip. I’ve never seen an OWB holster with active retention that I’d actually consider concealable to the level I want when I want to conceal a gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And therein lies my problem. I spend entirely too much money on suits to come out looking like shit.

The ALS (or similar GLS) will not be a great concealment holster for in a suit, unless you look like a bag of ass with a really slovenly look. Opening up your waist suppression an inch or two can help, but it's still going to print.

My experience mirrors DanM, he described it pretty much perfect. I'm not a very thin guy, however, and have the same experience. I've never seen an agent on my job carry in an ALS/GLS (whether it be a legacy or 7TS) that you couldn't obviously tell they were wearing a gun.

I would seriously consider using a Bianchi 82 or a Safariland 537 GLS, both pancake style. I used the 537 and it works very well for concealment while still giving you a 2nd chance in gun grabs, though admittedly not as much as an ALS. The only reason I stopped using it is because I wanted to use a WML that my wife bought me.

I read through the thread on the 537 linked to earlier. JodyH mentioned a model of the 537 that's basically a universal HK holster, so I'll see if I can make that work. Per their site there's nothing in the 537 line that fits a P30, but JodyH mentioned using a 45C which is roughly compatible depending on the holster.

If I'm being honest my main concern is concealment rather than a gun grab. It just needs to pass the smell test at work. Both of the assaults I mentioned were very avoidable. There are steps that I can and do take if and when I have to interact with defendants to mitigate the risk of something like that happening.

One thing that was mentioned in the 537 thread (and mirrored by my own experience with other Safariland products) is that the belt loop tends to be very snug, to the point where it's difficult to put on and adjust. Has that been your experience? If yes, have you or anybody else tried widening them a bit?

[TGS]

One thing that was mentioned in the 537 thread (and mirrored by my own experience with other Safariland products) is that the belt loop tends to be very snug, to the point where it's difficult to put on and adjust. Has that been your experience? If yes, have you or anybody else tried widening them a bit?

That's a good question. What sort of gun belt do you wear?

I use double-layer horsehide belts from JRC which are VERY thin compared to other double-layer leather belts, even horsehide ones (which are usually still only 1 layer of horsehide, the other usually thick cowhide).

For me, it wasn't a problem. I very lightly relieved the ends of the slots, basically by shaving off a bit of material using a knife blade. The guy I gave it to wears regular dress belts, so he obviously doesn't have an issue.

[JodyH]

I read through the thread on the 537 linked to earlier. JodyH mentioned a model of the 537 that's basically a universal HK holster, so I'll see if I can make that work. Per their site there's nothing in the 537 line that fits a P30, but JodyH mentioned using a 45C which is roughly compatible depending on the holster.

One thing that was mentioned in the 537 thread (and mirrored by my own experience with other Safariland products) is that the belt loop tends to be very snug, to the point where it's difficult to put on and adjust. Has that been your experience? If yes, have you or anybody else tried widening them a bit?

537-391
H&K - P10
49 15

This model does work with a P30SK, but it's a snug fit even with the adjustment screw backed all the way out.
The belt loops are tight even with my Maxpedition Liger belt which is thin and narrow for a 1.5" gunbelt. The Liger material is grabby though, so that doesn't help.

The 537 is definitely more concealable but I'm not a fan of the retention paddle location or activation personally.

The only reason I keep the 537 in my box of holsters is because it's a near universal H&K P-series holster.