Teaching beginners

[David S.]

Rich,

Re: informal training that you and I might do.
My point was, does the "student" care about shooting beyond just being a curious novelty. My wife, for instance, finds shooting moderately enjoyable. But, in spite of receiving some solid mindset and awareness training, couldn't be bothered with personal defense. Most of the other's I've taken to the range have been the same way. If that's the case, I'm not going to be terribly concerned about accuracy standards. If the student does has competition, defensive, or other technical interest, then I'd be happy to take the student as far as I could, and I'd certainly apply accuracy standards accordingly. That's what I mean by "what are the student's goals?"

For reasonable target size, dinner size paper plate or a repair center on a cardboard backer at 3 or 5 yards seems like a good place to start. Just work with what you got, like you are. The ability to score a repair center makes things a bit more interesting.

[RJ]

Rich,

Re: informal training that you and I might do.
My point was, does the "student" care about shooting beyond just being a curious novelty. My wife, for instance, finds shooting moderately enjoyable. But, in spite of receiving some solid mindset and awareness training, couldn't be bothered with personal defense. Most of the other's I've taken to the range have been the same way. If that's the case, I'm not going to be terribly concerned about accuracy standards. If the student does has competition, defensive, or other technical interest, then I'd be happy to take the student as far as I could, and I'd certainly apply accuracy standards accordingly. That's what I mean by "what are the student's goals?"

Makes sense now.

My student was pretty motivated, which might explain her ability to absorb information. I sensed that, so it was enjoyable to say ‘Front sight, press’ and watch her do just that. Boom. Bullseye.

[Frank Ettin]

....My point was, does the "student" care about shooting beyond just being a curious novelty. ....

In my experience they do. They might not have at the time ambitions to go on to competition or more advanced self defense training, but they do relish the satisfaction of a feeling that they have accomplished something. Their getting hits on target and good groups are clues to them that they have learned something. After the lectures and the hands-on exercises it they see it come together -- first with airsoft and then on the range -- in the form of actual hits on target. We put our class on at a public range, and most of our students notice that they are actually shooting better than many of the other shooters there.

Some students have initial difficulty, and we work with them. They improve, and shooting paper targets (plate size circles) shows them that they are learning.

[RJ]

In my experience they do. They might not have at the time ambitions to go on to competition or more advanced self defense training, but they do relish the satisfaction of a feeling that they have accomplished something. Their getting hits on target and good groups are clues to them that they have learned something. After the lectures and the hands-on exercises it they see it come together -- first with airsoft and then on the range -- in the form of actual hits on target. We put our class on at a public range, and most of our students notice that they are actually shooting better than many of the other shooters there.

Some students have initial difficulty, and we work with them. They improve, and shooting paper targets (plate size circles) shows them that they are learning.

Frank - What Airsoft Gun do you use?

I know zilch about those. That’s like a BB gun that shoots those little plastic balls?

[David S.]

Frank - What Airsoft Gun do you use?

I know zilch about those. That’s like a BB gun that shoots those little plastic balls?

If you like listening, check out: The Survival Podcast: Fun, Training and Family Time with Airsoft Guns. Skip to 11 minutes in. Applicable content is about a 1 hour long.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here's a presentation from KRtraining, they were one of the pioneers in Airsoft: https://www.krtraining.com/KRTrainin...rceOnForce.pdf

[Frank Ettin]

Frank - What Airsoft Gun do you use?

I know zilch about those. That’s like a BB gun that shoots those little plastic balls?

We use the sorts described in links in David's and Glenn's posts, just above. They are replicas of the real thing (we use mostly a Glock pattern, a 1911 pattern, and a SIG 226 pattern) and they operate like the real thing. They fire a 6mm plastic ball propelled by compressed green (propane) gas. The triggers are decent and reset like the real thing, and the slides reciprocate.

We've found them to be a very useful intermediate step in the transition from dry handling to shooting live ammunition. It allows the student a chance to get a feel for a surprise break, trigger reset, and what all happens when the gun fires (i. e., the slide movement) without some of the distractions that go with live ammunition. It also gives us a chance to identify and begin to correct shooting problems.

We set up targets (we use large paper targets with five plate size circles printed on them) with a heavy blanket as backstop (folded at the bottom to catch the balls). So we can see their hits on target and address problems. So if someone doesn't seem to understand surprise break, or trigger reset, or follow through we'll identify that and work with the student before going onto the range. If someone has an eye dominance issue, e. g., eyes fighting for dominance when the dominant eye is only weakly dominant, we can suggest and try somethings to help before going onto the range.

[David S.]

Airsoft really does seem like a really underutilized tool for teaching new shooters, particularly those who might be recoil sensitive.

I think it's awesome that you guys are seeing such great success with them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

They are not without some pain. Get hosed with a full auto one very close up when only wearing a t-shirt. Ouch. Interesting exercise at Karl Rehn's. You stand in the center of a square with four people surrounding you. You had to rotate and engage each person, gun at low ready. We found that most of us shot low. So we ended with strings of little airsoft pellet welts just above belt line. Given that manly men wear their belts hanging low (haha), it was kind of funny.

However, we used them in more traditional FOF with great success. In another, FOF elsewhere, I was a rampage shooter and then surrendered to a team. I came out with hands up. But oops, I had a small airsoft in the small of my back. As they were yelling instructions, I pulled it out and shot one in the face mask (full masks). Then I died. Point was to pay attention to the person you have covered. They are great tools, IMHO.

[JRB]

I'm with a group of instructors putting on a monthly Basic Handgun class (originally it was an NRA Basic Handgun class -- our class hasn't changed but the NRA class has). We're older guys, most of us retired or close to it. We've all done a fair bit of shooting and training -- multiple classes at Gunsite, classes with a number of instructors like Massad Ayoob or Louis Awerbuck, USPSA or IDPA competition, NRA instructor certifications, and three are POST certified. Our training group is organized as a 501(c)(3) corporation. We're all volunteers, and none of use receive any compensation (except the company buys us dinner after the class where we do a debriefing). Our class fees are set to just cover our expenses and operating costs. We supply everything -- guns, ammunition, eye and ear protection, a book on California gun laws, etc.

Probably 80% to 90% of our students had never touched a real gun before. Our class enrollment runs roughly 30% female. We have students of all ages from early 20s to us more seasoned types. We've had entire families attend together.

Most of our student show varying levels of anxiety at handling real guns. We try to address this by bringing them through the course material in a step-by-step, measured and supportive way. We limit class size to 10 students, and will have at least five or six instructors at each class. The class runs about ten hours, but we try to provide adequate breaks. Periodically we discuss breaking the class up into two days; but since we often have students travel from some distance doing so might be a greater hardship.

In addition to the core lectures, the first of which is on safety, we do a lot of "hands-on" work with the students. The students handle a variety of revolvers and semi-autos under direct supervision, one-on-one, of an instructor. They use dummy rounds to load and unload the guns, dry fire and generally learn how things work and feel, and they get continual safety reinforcement.

These initial hands-on exercises help students get familiar with handling a gun and lay a foundation for safe gun handling habits. For beginners handling guns for the first time is pretty awkward. Guns feel strange in the their hands. Many are surprised by how heavy they are. They have no sense of how much or how little force is needed to operate the various "do-dads." The students begin to realize that although guns can be dangerous they can learn how to handle them safely and that safety is in their hands.

In preparation for live fire we put on a lecture and demonstration about how to actually shoot (grip, stance, sight alignment, trigger press, surprise break, focus on the front sight, and eye dominance). I usually do this one, and I like to use an airsoft gun fitted with a Crimson Trace laser grip to illustrate a controlled trigger press compared with jerking the trigger. We then work one-on-one with students on grip and stance using "blue" inert training guns.

Before going to live fire with .22s, the students shoot airsoft (the quality type) in the classroom so they can get a feel for sight alignment and trigger control (and reset) without the noise and intimidation factor (for beginners) of firing real ammunition.

After the students fire their 25 rounds of .22 (working one-on-one with an instructor), we put out a variety of guns from 9mm to .44 Magnum so the students can get the experience of firing the larger calibers. Shooting the centerfire guns is at each student's option. Most fire them all, but some choose not to.

During the live fire exercises it's not uncommon for a student to shoot 2 to 3 inch groups at seven yards with even the heavy calibers. A few months ago, a petite young woman who had never fired any type of gun before out shot everyone, including her husband, with the .44 Magnum -- putting three rounds into about an inch at 7 yards.

Going through our process most students shed a good deal of their initial anxiety. Some remain anxious to a degree but still manage to master their anxiety and perform well. In the last several years only one or two (out of perhaps a couple of hundred) could not complete the class.

Some time ago got an email from a student. She is a very petite Asian woman who is a PhD candidate in statistics at Stanford. She wrote:And that's why we teach beginners.

And the foregoing was a very prolix way to answer Rich's question.

What an excellent class format!

If anyone knows of a class like this in the Panama City/North Florida area, please send me a PM with more info.
A family member in that area is strongly considering gun ownership for the first time in her life (she's in her late 40's) and I think a class like this would be perfect for her.