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Thread: The 5×5 Classifier ( Abbreviated)

  1. #31
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I shot it tonight at a local club.

    I never have to classify again.
    I was kind of wondering how much the short format skews results... I already jumped one level switching from the 90 round classifier to the 72 round one.

    What was your classification before?

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    IDPA SSP classification: Sharpshooter
    F.A.S.T. classification: Intermediate

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I was kind of wondering how much the short format skews results... I already jumped one level switching from the 90 round classifier to the 72 round one.

    What was your classification before?

    Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk
    I was previously an EX. I sniffed MA a couple of times on the original classifier, but I quit actively shooting IDPA in 2014.

    Funny thing, I really feel no sense of accomplishment with this.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  3. #33
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    Santa Fe, NM
    i hope to join the "no more shooting classifier club" some day.

    congrats!

    and yet, you read over and over that "shooting a pistol is a highly perishable skill", and that you must continually practice and train and attend classes.....

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DAB View Post
    i hope to join the "no more shooting classifier club" some day.

    congrats!

    and yet, you read over and over that "shooting a pistol is a highly perishable skill", and that you must continually practice and train and attend classes.....
    I do train and attend/teach classes. I just quit shooting IDPA.

    I actually shoot more now and with more structure than I did when I was a "competition shooter".
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  5. #35
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I actually shoot more now and with more structure than I did when I was a "competition shooter".
    Say more about that.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Say more about that.
    I went to the police academy in 1999. I qualified but struggled. Long about 2001, an instructor by the name of Sam Conway finally instructed me instead of repeating "stop jerking the trigger" while walking back and forth down a line of shooters. I immediately became a high 90s shooter on the state qual course. In 2003, my agency sent to me firearms instructor school. I routinely was in the top three shooters at any cop class I attended, and I was a firearms instructor; I had the t-shirt.

    In 2009ish, a friend who worked for Glock convinced me to shoot in a GSSF match, and that opened the door to IDPA. After getting smoked by some cube farm types in my first couple of matches, I rapidly made EX but plateaued, and still got smoked by cube farm types.
    @VolGrad used to attend open enrollment classes. I never would go as I could go to the state training center for free and the open enrollment classes costs as much as a new pistol.

    One day somebody, maybe @VolGrad, sent me a link to something written by some guy named TLG. From there I found Pistol Forum in its infancy. I began to study the backgrounds of the SMEs to see how they got to be SMEs. I noticed certain training classes that were common in their backgrounds. I learned that you could get slots in classes by hosting them.

    Enter 2014, I hosted @Tom Givens for CP1 as my first open enrollment class. Later that month in the same week I attended Rogers all week (the class in which Gabe and Manny did their thing) and a Hackathorn class that weekend.

    I was hooked.

    In late 2014, the local IDPA scene went nuts due to the GADPA/IDPA feud and some other things. Dealing with drama all day at work, having my hobby become a drama den became uninteresting.

    I quit shooting matches and started attending more classes. It also helped that I had a boss that said I could go to any shooting schools that I wanted to attend so long as I brought what I learned back to the agency. Ultimately, Tom Givens let me start assisting with classes, and I was able to start working the other agency instructors through classes. 100% of our instructor cadre are Rangemaster alumni. Now we're working the line level guys through classes as rewards for good work.

    It turns out that if you spend a weekend with a competent instructor shooting 1000 rounds and then practicing what you learned, you'll reach a higher level of skill and consistency that you don't achieve if you shoot a 100 or so rounds at a match every month.

    Eventually, I opened my own company as a way to pay for more training.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #37
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    It turns out that if you spend a weekend with a competent instructor shooting 1000 rounds and then practicing what you learned, you'll reach a higher level of skill and consistency that you don't achieve if you shoot a 100 or so rounds at a match every month.
    Agreed. Thanks for elaborating.
    Last edited by ST911; 02-07-2018 at 10:10 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  8. #38
    And another thread rebirth!!

    I shot a club match earlier this month. It was the first match I shot since the match mentioned earlier in this thread in which I shot the 5x5 and bumped to MA.

    Back then my profile showed me as MA in all of the pistol divisions. It appears that my score was uploaded for the CCP division. With a revision in the rules, IDPA has dropped me to EX in everything by CCP. Even more amusing (or confounding) is that the times for the 5x5 have been revised, and the score that bumped me to MA would now be an EX score.

    As it has been several years since the 5x5 was discussed, what has been the experience over time with classifiers from it as they relate to actual match performance.

    ------

    In the recent club match, I shot in CO. The RDS-pistol thing is completely new to me. I beat two MA classified shooters but was well behind an EX classified shooter who is MA in the other pistol divisions.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    And another thread rebirth!!

    I shot a club match earlier this month. It was the first match I shot since the match mentioned earlier in this thread in which I shot the 5x5 and bumped to MA.

    Back then my profile showed me as MA in all of the pistol divisions. It appears that my score was uploaded for the CCP division. With a revision in the rules, IDPA has dropped me to EX in everything by CCP. Even more amusing (or confounding) is that the times for the 5x5 have been revised, and the score that bumped me to MA would now be an EX score.

    As it has been several years since the 5x5 was discussed, what has been the experience over time with classifiers from it as they relate to actual match performance.

    ------

    In the recent club match, I shot in CO. The RDS-pistol thing is completely new to me. I beat two MA classified shooters but was well behind an EX classified shooter who is MA in the other pistol divisions.
    I have found very little correlation between shooting MA on the 5 x 5 and performance in matches.
    A couple of years ago, I started doing a lot of training on my own and took a Langdon class, among others. I got much better at recoil control and tracking the sights. Then, a few months later, shot a 5 x 5 for record, and classified MA in CCP, and shot an EX score with SSP.
    With the rules at the time, I then was rated as a MA in all semiauto pistol divisions.
    So I shot the state match and the regional match as SSP MA, and, frankly, got my ass handed to me. And the next year, and this year, too. Even with the rule change, it appears that having shot several high-level matches as a MA in SSP, I’m stuck there, despite having never shot MA on a classifier in SSP.

    I think that the 5 x 5 is a decent assessment of draw-to-first-shot time, split time, and accuracy with quick split times.
    It cannot, and does not, take any match tactics into account. Furthermore, in my experience, the stages that separate the men from the boys in my region involve rapidly transitioning to targets that move or disappear, and engaging them very quickly with acceptable accuracy. This is where I routinely get left in the dust.

    With the benefit of hindsight, the best way to compete in the class where you are actually competitive is to not work too hard during classifiers, and instead work on match tactics and rapid target acquisition. When you’ve earned it, you’ll move up in classification through a match bump. (Not aimed at you, @jlw - more general advice I’d give to a shooter with aspirations that I was mentoring.)

    I suppose that the 5 x 5 has its place for roughly placing a shooter that’s brand new to IDPA (but not necessarily to competitive shooting). But in my humble opinion, a shooter shouldn’t be able to classify above EX except in the full classifier or via a match bump.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by GyroF-16 View Post
    With the benefit of hindsight, the best way to compete in the class where you are actually competitive is to not work too hard during classifiers, and instead work on match tactics and rapid target acquisition. When you’ve earned it, you’ll move up in classification through a match bump. (Not aimed at you, @jlw - more general advice I’d give to a shooter with aspirations that I was mentoring.)
    Likewise, not aimed at you, but I don't understand the position by many that match bumps are the only legit way to move up when one of the criticisms of IDPA is that it is too easy to get match bumps. There's even posts here on PF about people being MA shooters who can't shoot MA level classifiers.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

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