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Thread: LE UOF Video thread

  1. #501
    http://www.vdmsr.com/2017/02/de-esca...-scenario.html

    Typed up a quick article on the matter.
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  2. #502
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Wait....Did those cops LET him take a fucking hostage?

    I try to not be too judgemental, but come the fuck on.

    Imagine if that was your family member waiting at the bus stop. Holy shit, the choice words I'd have for those motherfuckers.....
    Yup. If I were the guy who rolled up and had to take a hostage rescue shot, I'd have gotten time off when I blew up on the officers who let that happen.
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  3. #503
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    If I was that hostage I'd be PISSED.
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  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Yup. If I were the guy who rolled up and had to take a hostage rescue shot, I'd have gotten time off when I blew up on the officers who let that happen.
    It was their Sgt who double tapped the POS.

    He is as much to blame for their obviously flawed attempts de-escalation as they are.
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  5. #505
    I might be inclined to give them a pass on trying to talk him down so to speak while it appears that they are isolated from other people. Heck from the video I couldn't see a gun, but knew it was there from the commentary. However, it should have been lights out before the bystander became a hostage.

  6. #506
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    This is a the new paradigm. In my town, many officers now wouldn't take action until the suspect shot the hostage.....Some not even then. Not surprising in the anti-police political climate we operate in, where an OIS is considered by City Hall and Hdqtrs as a defacto failure/crime on the part of the officer. Our policy encourages use of supersocks against subjects armed with firearms, when "feasible", and prohibits shooting at vehicles even if the driver is running down peds in a Nice, France type attack. Make stupid rules, don't be surprised when your cops play stupid games.

  7. #507
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    Our policy encourages use of supersocks against subjects armed with firearms, when "feasible", and prohibits shooting at vehicles even if the driver is running down peds in a Nice, France type attack. Make stupid rules, don't be surprised when your cops play stupid games.
    To whoever came up with those policies:

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  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    This is a the new paradigm. In my town, many officers now wouldn't take action until the suspect shot the hostage.....Some not even then. Not surprising in the anti-police political climate we operate in, where an OIS is considered by City Hall and Hdqtrs as a defacto failure/crime on the part of the officer. Our policy encourages use of supersocks against subjects armed with firearms, when "feasible", and prohibits shooting at vehicles even if the driver is running down peds in a Nice, France type attack. Make stupid rules, don't be surprised when your cops play stupid games.
    I agree absolutely. Rules and G.O.s and especially administrators are always behind. These types of policies are written and approved by administrators that don't work the streets and probably haven't in the last decade or more. They write and approve them based on liability and cost in dollars to an agency or municipality then reinforce it through practice and repetition of comments. The troops get too caught up in the politics and policy to make good decisions in a timely manner. I say this more in general as it relates to the video. I can't say I fault the guys for attempting to resolve the problem with talk or TASER initially but when that failed and before the person continued to more public areas they should have ended it with a good backstop instead of a hostage and busier area.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    I agree absolutely. Rules and G.O.s and especially administrators are always behind. These types of policies are written and approved by administrators that don't work the streets and probably haven't in the last decade or more. They write and approve them based on liability and cost in dollars to an agency or municipality then reinforce it through practice and repetition of comments. The troops get too caught up in the politics and policy to make good decisions in a timely manner. I say this more in general as it relates to the video. I can't say I fault the guys for attempting to resolve the problem with talk or TASER initially but when that failed and before the person continued to more public areas they should have ended it with a good backstop instead of a hostage and busier area.
    In our case, no one from the Department was involved in the creation of our new policies. They were written by the Police Commission (with input from the ACLU and the Office Of Citizen Complaints), a 7 member appointed body whose primary prerequisites for the job appear to be 1. Attorney and 2. Social Justice Activist. Several of them admit to having no knowledge of Police Procedures, training, or the relevant case law. As for troops "getting too caught up in the politics or policy".....policy governs. If the policy says "bring a bean-bag gun to every armed encounter", and you don't, you're ass out. If it says "don't shoot at moving cars if the car is the only threat" and you do, vague statements by politicians that they would of course take extreme circumstances into consideration if....blah, blah, blah. Hey, they don't want police, they ain't gonna get policing.
    Last edited by AMC; 02-28-2017 at 05:07 PM.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    This is a the new paradigm. In my town, many officers now wouldn't take action until the suspect shot the hostage.....Some not even then. Not surprising in the anti-police political climate we operate in, where an OIS is considered by City Hall and Hdqtrs as a defacto failure/crime on the part of the officer. Our policy encourages use of supersocks against subjects armed with firearms, when "feasible", and prohibits shooting at vehicles even if the driver is running down peds in a Nice, France type attack. Make stupid rules, don't be surprised when your cops play stupid games.
    We have the same policy on shooting at vehicles.

    Though we have done it, gotten repremanded, appealed and won because state law says we can.
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