LE UOF Video thread

[AMC]

Maybe more of a question of how has he trained with the gun. Some issues like that only manifest under stress.

We're beginning to see issues like that more and more as we institute in service training and put officers under increasing time/accuracy standards. Especially the time. When they rush, and they don't have solid grip fundamentals, all kinds of weird shit happens. The two most common being dropping the magazine and causing the slide to lock back. And that's with legacy Sig P226Rs....so it's not the gun.

[HCM]

We're beginning to see issues like that more and more as we institute in service training and put officers under increasing time/accuracy standards. Especially the time. When they rush, and they don't have solid grip fundamentals, all kinds of weird shit happens. The two most common being dropping the magazine and causing the slide to lock back. And that's with legacy Sig P226Rs....so it's not the gun.

Maybe.

I’ve seen more of that with SIGs than with Glocks. Though Glocks are sensitive to grip in terms of function and accuracy, I’ve not really seen the dropped mag / pre nature slide lock issues with Glocks.

[octagon]

I never saw any mag drop or pre empty slide lock open issues with 226 in 9mm or 40 and nothing with our Glocks (22 and 27).

One factor may be that the use of metal mags that easily drop free quickly AND a mag catch button that is easier to press cleanly. Glocks have a comparatively draggy and stiff through the entire press compared to the 226 at least which is smoother and lighter feeling ( I never measured the push weight or distance needed to release a mag) The mags also jump out of the gun rather than fall out or even stick like Glocks of various generations and loaded capacities.

One thing I noticed right away and liked was the Beretta APX mag button was buttery smooth and lightish and mags flew out. If the 320s are similar that might be an issue.

Does anyone have a Glock and 320 to measure the distance the mag catch needs to be pushed to release the mag and/or the push weight?

[TheRoland]

I'm far from an expert but I've seen a bunch of mags drop out of both Sigs and Glocks in competition over the last decade, when people running extended buttons get in a hurry. No way to tell if that's a factor here, but the 320 button is pretty big to begin with.

Sure, training and practice might prevent that but some software issues can be fixed in hardware.

[HCM]

I never saw any mag drop or pre empty slide lock open issues with 226 in 9mm or 40 and nothing with our Glocks (22 and 27).

One factor may be that the use of metal mags that easily drop free quickly AND a mag catch button that is easier to press cleanly. Glocks have a comparatively draggy and stiff through the entire press compared to the 226 at least which is smoother and lighter feeling ( I never measured the push weight or distance needed to release a mag) The mags also jump out of the gun rather than fall out or even stick like Glocks of various generations and loaded capacities.

One thing I noticed right away and liked was the Beretta APX mag button was buttery smooth and lightish and mags flew out. If the 320s are similar that might be an issue.

Does anyone have a Glock and 320 to measure the distance the mag catch needs to be pushed to release the mag and/or the push weight?

The only time I’ve seen or experienced premature slide lock issues with the Glock has been with extended slide lock lowers.

Hand size risk group size may be a factor too. I was recently in a red dot pissed of class next to a shooter with small hands running a stock Stacatto P who had a similar issue. Part of his support hand was hitting the mag release and drop in the mag as he was acquiring support hand grip and presenting the gun.

[Archer1440]

I never saw any mag drop or pre empty slide lock open issues with 226 in 9mm or 40 and nothing with our Glocks (22 and 27).

One factor may be that the use of metal mags that easily drop free quickly AND a mag catch button that is easier to press cleanly. Glocks have a comparatively draggy and stiff through the entire press compared to the 226 at least which is smoother and lighter feeling ( I never measured the push weight or distance needed to release a mag) The mags also jump out of the gun rather than fall out or even stick like Glocks of various generations and loaded capacities.

One thing I noticed right away and liked was the Beretta APX mag button was buttery smooth and lightish and mags flew out. If the 320s are similar that might be an issue.

Does anyone have a Glock and 320 to measure the distance the mag catch needs to be pushed to release the mag and/or the push weight?

No Glock for comparison, but:

The P320 X-grip standard mag release (on four I have here) protrudes .0193” from the molded fence on the grip at the muzzle-side of the button, and releases with 0.081” of depression. Release weight with a loaded magazine with slide in battery is 3# 12 ounces on one of my examples, and 3#15 ounces with another. It’s about a pound less when actuated from slide lock with an empty mag, probably because of preload on the magazine locking pawl from cartridge pressure on the slide in battery.

I can’t get a firing grip on the pistol that is capable of causing a mag release in battery, but my heart rate isn’t 150+ with a liter of adrenaline dumping into my system as I sit here and fiddle with this stuff, either. All respect to the officer who stayed in the fight despite this nightmare scenario.

[octagon]

No Glock for comparison, but:

The P320 X-grip standard mag release (on four I have here) protrudes .0193” from the molded fence on the grip at the muzzle-side of the button, and releases with 0.081” of depression. Release weight with a loaded magazine with slide in battery is 3# 12 ounces on one of my examples, and 3#15 ounces with another. It’s about a pound less when actuated from slide lock with an empty mag, probably because of preload on the magazine locking pawl from cartridge pressure on the slide in battery.

I can’t get a firing grip on the pistol that is capable of causing a mag release in battery, but my heart rate isn’t 150+ with a liter of adrenaline dumping into my system as I sit here and fiddle with this stuff, either. All respect to the officer who stayed in the fight despite this nightmare scenario.

Thank you sir for the data. I will measure my Glocks and see what they look like. How did you measure the push weight? I planned on using a digital kitchen scale and a pencil to push the button.

[Lester Polfus]

When I was a SWAT pup I went to a week long CQB training put on by JT6 marines. During the entry training but especially in the live fire shoot house they were very strict about flagging other operators. They’d see it and call you out if you did it. They told us during their six week CQB training if you flagged someone three times you were out. That was the standard I tried to maintain.

When I was doing the job I had before my old job, flagging somebody with a blue gun could potentially result in a reassignment to serve the people of the United States a different way. Doing it with a real weapon was an automatic.

Doing it any other way is fucked up.

[Hambo]

- The officer who was hit in the gun arm gets out of the way to let his partners work and a citizen helps him apply a tourniquet.

Officer Hayden's (hit in arm) calm radio request for EMS was outstanding. Don't freak out, just do what needs to be done.

[Hambo]

Who doesn't love a good Leroy Jenkins?

Not to be super critical, but the Tucson officer had better follow through and more suspect air time.