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Thread: LE UOF Video thread

  1. #1961
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    My former chief could be pretty open-minded and progressive, but could also get jittery over the possibility of being blamed for anything. *Good grief, it was annoying to have to prepare back-to-back responses to both the IACP and PERF position papers on ECD's. I never thought I'd ever think IACP was reasonable.) As a result, the Fourth Circuit decision did not really affect our policies or procedures.

    TC215's references do provide a list of incidents in which Taser deployments have likely caused injuries. Props to TC for his research, but some--certainly not all--the articles seem somewhat one-sided. A couple reference incidents where officers allegedly violated Axon training guidelines. In any event, our protocols changed to require a suspect pose a threat to the officers or people other than self. By the time I left, I bluntly told people that a stationary subject cutting his wrists with a knife in a suicide attempt could not be tasered. I suspect most officers realized that I would figure a way to justify Taser deployment in that circumstance, but I could not see a way to put that in the lesson plan. My recommendation was to await unconsciousness, disarm and control the subject, and begin medical treatment.

    I also realized that our Sabre Red pepper spray tended to be more effective than the Taser. As a bonus, while pepper sprayed suspects are often incapacitated, they generally don't fall like a dropped beer mug.

    As I look back on my largely pointless career with my former department, one of my many regrets is that I did not push for more extensive initial and sustainment training for Taser operators. We would have been better served with fewer Tasers on the street, but with more extensively trained operators. While our allied county agency makes Taser operators jump through the hoops of attending CIT training, pretty much anyone who wants a Taser can get one so I doubt lengthier training times would have been an easy sell. That said, I should have tried, especially as I probably could have sold it.

  2. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    If I came across as...errr...cross, then I apologize. The first bad guy I tazed in the field was a burglar running away from me. When I tazed him he assumed the plywood position and fell face first on the sidewalk, breaking every bone in the right side of his face. The continuum of force frowns on that now....


    pat
    Ironically, a couple of decades before I was working private security at a concert. Before I was a cop, but working for a security company that provided some training to their personnel.... had a combtive fan who I OC'd as he turned to hit a female officer, who definately should have kept her mouth shut, turned around and started running, tripped on the curb, and fell face first into a trash can. Broke every bone in the right side of his face.

    pat

  3. #1963
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    TC215's references do provide a list of incidents in which Taser deployments have likely caused injuries. Props to TC for his research, but some--certainly not all--the articles seem somewhat one-sided. A couple reference incidents where officers allegedly violated Axon training guidelines. In any event, our protocols changed to require a suspect pose a threat to the officers or people other than self. By the time I left, I bluntly told people that a stationary subject cutting his wrists with a knife in a suicide attempt could not be tasered. I suspect most officers realized that I would figure a way to justify Taser deployment in that circumstance, but I could not see a way to put that in the lesson plan. My recommendation was to await unconsciousness, disarm and control the subject, and begin medical treatment.
    To be clear, I was just looking for examples. Some of the articles are definitely one-sided. There were also examples where people fell and hit their head after being tased when deadly force would have been justified anyway.

  4. #1964
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    Smile

    No worries, TC. When Tasers produce neuromuscular incapacitatation, subjects tend to fall like like rocks. While the falls rarely cause serious injury, they do have that potential. I didn't have any other examples other than the one I mentioned.

    UNM, of course, is the unicorn with a serious injury caused by OC deployment (well, actually, by the suspect being stupid). An advantage of OC is that the suspect usually doesn't collapse, but may seek the deck on his own to establish balance.

    UNM, that must have been a great concert.

  5. #1965
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Ironically, a couple of decades before I was working private security at a concert. Before I was a cop, but working for a security company that provided some training to their personnel.... had a combtive fan who I OC'd as he turned to hit a female officer, who definately should have kept her mouth shut, turned around and started running, tripped on the curb, and fell face first into a trash can. Broke every bone in the right side of his face.

    pat
    Yup. Every use of force has the risk of injury. I can assure you I've inflicted and received significantly more, and more serious, injuries unarmed or with a mag-lite then with a Taser.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  6. #1966
    LVMPD

    One officer had a G41 with optic.


  7. #1967
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeeFus View Post
    LVMPD

    One officer had a G41 with optic.

    AFAIK this is LVMPD’s 3rd RMR OIS this year.

  8. #1968
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    I really like how LVMPD handles their video releases. While the LAPD style isn't bad at all, I think the LVMPD is a better product.

    If you're interested, the Las Vegas Review-Journal did a deep dive into the LVMPD OISs back in 2011. It is a worthwhile read, https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-...dp/B006EV0WR0/

    ... and while events can & should be reviews, that wasn't bad work at all.

  9. #1969
    Vending Machine Operator
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    Nice work all around by LVMPD. Not sure if G41 with MOS is the one who landed shots or the other Glock officer using stock sights but it looked like they were both putting rounds on target very quickly and well in a super dangerous situation. I've seen lots of LVMPD OIS footage in the last few years and it seems like they're doing something right.
    State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan

  10. #1970
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    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the Rainbow Tunnel, somewhere north of Fantasyland.
    I've seen lots of LVMPD OIS footage in the last few years and it seems like they're doing something right.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. Spent time at SHOT talking to some of their range folks, and have had a couple of phone conversations since then. They are fortunate to have a very nice training facility, and a robust in service training program. Lots of elective training, which is apparently very popular with their cops. Definitely a "gun culture" in the positive sense, in that they take the responsibilities of firearms training very seriously.

    Watching their OIS videos, I've noticed that they tend to be (relatively) low round count, high hit ratio affairs, and the officers display excellent situational awareness.

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