Grip tape or stippling.Originally Posted by TheNewbie
Grip tape or stippling.
Curious as to what happened with Officer 2's rifle. He wasn't dry, but encountered some manner of malfunction he decided to fix with a badly staged reload.
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
Badguy transitions from pistol with a drum mag to a backpack carried (I think) AK based pistol in the middle of a gunfight with the Police. Also, two different officers have malfunctions with their glock pistols. I can’t tell if the second officer maybe didn’t have a round chambered at first, but he also has another malfunction later in the fight.
Baltimore, Maryland — On June 29, 2023, just before 5:30 p.m. two Baltimore Police officers came across 40-year-old Darryl Gamble who was wanted on a warrant. That warrant was for possession of a controlled substance and possession of a firearm. As officers attempted to engage, he drove off. Officers followed Gamble until he reached the intersection of E. Fairmount and N. Milton Avenues, where his car became disabled. As officers drove by Gamble got out of the car and fired multiple shots striking a police cruiser. Officers returned gunfire, but according to Acting Police Commissioner Richard Worley, the suspect dropped one weapon then picked up another and fired again.
Gamble was ultimately killed during the exchange. A handgun with an extended magazine and short-barreled rifle were recovered at the scene. None of the involved officers were injured. Police said the vehicle Gamble was using was not registered to him but was also not stolen. Gamble had four firearms on him at the time of the shootout and two of them were configured to fire as automatic weapons, say police. Preliminary information shows that the officers fired around 40 rounds during the encounter. In connection with Gamble's weapons, investigators have counted 33 casings. All five officers are on administrative leave until the Maryland Office of the Attorney General's Independent Investigations Division has finished conducting its investigation.
Last edited by Caballoflaco; 07-12-2023 at 10:07 PM.
im strong, i can run faster than train
I almost had a nervous breakdown watching all that shooting from the 'back of the bus'. Glad yet again I don't have to do that shit anymore.
Completely agree about the shooting from the back of the bus.
Perhaps better for a different thread, but...I realize malfunctions are more likely to occur in real life shootouts than on the range, but I wonder if polymer handguns might be more prone to malfunction. Of course, since the cop world is almost entirely Glock SIG 320 and maybe M&P since BWC's became common, I'm not sure of a way of collecting evidence on that.
I think guns that are prone to malfunctioning because of limp wristing would be something worth considering when choosing a firearm you may use in a gun fight.
It is a miracle that nobody but the bad guy was hit with all that was going on, on a city street, at 1730 hrs on a Thursday.
As far as malfunctions, a lot more seem to occur during OISs (as seen in BWC video) that are seen on the range. I believe this has to do with the dynamic movement of the officer involved. Either not having a proper grip or moving the gun as it is fired. I do believe polymer guns, some more than others, are more susceptible to this type of malfunction.
In the Baltimore video, it appears as if the officers are using G22 Gen 3 pistols, some appear to be well-worn, some with lights attached. Much has been discussed here about the general reliability of those pistols. You can do a search here if you are unfamiliar with what I am referring to. Add to that the question what armorer support have those weapons received, have the recoil springs been replaced, detail cleaned, etc.? Many agencies do not conduct proper PMs on issued weapons. Some officers do not properly maintain them as well. So, you are dealing with a gun on the ragged edge of reliability to begin with, add a light, add the dynamics of an OIS, and possibly have not properly maintained said weapon for years. Not surprised to see malfunctions.
Plenty of bad grips all around. The chest cameras don't capture a lot of the action, but they often do give you a great view of the officer's grip. Note how much of the backstrap of the pistols you can see when the officers have two hands on the gun. They're literally trying to hang on to the sides of the pistol, which is suboptimal.
The first officer who experiences a stoppage experiences it because his own hand gets in the way of the slide when it looks like he may have fired a shot accidentally:
I say it may be accidental because of the way the gun moved and the immediate "FUCK" right after that shot is fired. It moved in his hand like he wasn't expecting it to go off, considerably differently than it was moving when he fired the four prior shots. When he runs the slide, a loaded round gets sent flying:
He appears to run the slide again after he gets out of the car, but the gun is off camera and it's hard to see exactly why. He may have still been trying to clear the stoppage from before. Hard to say.
The officer who stared out in the front passenger seat runs up and appears to try and take a shot only to get a click instead of a bang after he's fired a couple of shots. He runs the slide and then engages in a prolonged string of 12 shots, after which he gets another dead trigger. Then runs the slide, it locks, and he performs a reload. The footage makes it impossible for me to tell if he fired any shots before he got the dead trigger, but I'm assuming so since he shot 12 rounds and was empty. His pistol should have held more than that assuming (and I know it's a big assumption) he had a full magazine in his pistol.
It's hard to say what happened with him, too.
We don't know how many times rounds have been chambered, unloaded, and rechambered. We don't know when the last time magazine springs were changed. Factory Glock magazine springs tend to give up the ghost a lot sooner than most realize, especially if they are kept loaded on your body as you walk and run several hours a day, erreday. That plus round count will take a toll.
There may be something to the pistols that are being used having an inherently lower margin for error in how they are held on to that's at play here. And we can also see quite clearly that in practically every body cam shooting we're seeing from police they are drawing to a really poor grip. This isn't surprising as pretty much all shooters are drawing to a bad grip either on the training range or in real life. It takes relentless and specific instruction to pound into people's heads the need to grip the gun hard with the strong hand before it ever leaves the holster. I know there are some competition guys who don't do that, but police officers and private citizens carrying for defense *need* to do that because both face a significant chance of having to deploy the handgun within arm's reach of another person.
The guns being deployed are, generally speaking, poorly maintained both by the end user and their departments making lack of lubrication and proper maintenance an important ingredient in the failure sundae.
So is it really the guns that are the problem? I'm sure that the lightweight polymer frame plays a part, but we're dealing with a complex system with multiple points of failure and I'm not sure that factor's slice on the pie chart is big enough to explain what we are seeing.
One thing I think we can conclude pretty conclusively is that Glocks are nowhere near "perfection" in police service. If nothing else, the last few decades of Glocks in police holsters has taught us that abject neglect and user error will choke "perfection" pretty damn hard.
"You can run Glocks without lubrication!" Not in the long term, you can't.
3/15/2016
I'd lay a fat hundo on the magazine springs and recoil springs both being neglected.
3/15/2016
I could be seeing it wrong but it looks like the first officer who had a malf (Nolte) might have banged his Glock against the top of the car while shooting, maybe hanging up the slide.
State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan
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