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Thread: LE UOF Video thread

  1. #1361
    Little Rock


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  3. #1363
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Northern Mississippi
    A solid reminder that rural engagements can be different.
    (Bad guy is the dark vehicle on the right side of the image)

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-sh...3Z73ODfj9g-2bU
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    • It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
    • If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
    • "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG

  4. #1364
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    Regrding the Little Rock video - I'll avoid the interim / acting chief's statements.

    Patrol car positioning, officer's movement & path, and decisions as the car began to move may be worth discussing.

  5. #1365
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    officer's movement & path, and decisions as the car began to move may be worth discussing.
    Fraternally, I always think of positions in the longitudinal axis of a vehicle similar to looking down the barrel of a firearm, and consequently avoid them.

    Also, and this might be my age (and distance from active duty), but it seems as if in many UOF videos that there is more impetus to close on the perpetrator (both in speed and distance) than we practiced. I personally was taught, and in-turn taught "don't be in a hurry", "don't rush up to the vehicle", etc.

    It seems as if there is still a need for the older bulls to teach the young ones to walk down the hill.

  6. #1366
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    Whiting, IN
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Regrding the Little Rock video - I'll avoid the interim / acting chief's statements.

    Patrol car positioning, officer's movement & path, and decisions as the car began to move may be worth discussing.
    My first question was why order the suspect out of the vehicle before backup arrived? They were about 30 seconds away. Its easy to MMQB, but I second Gray01 with taking it slower and assessing more. It looked to me that he did not expect the car to be where it was. Perhaps he thought it was farther in the parking lot...?

    Maybe its just me, but when the car began rolling, Id like to think Id move....

  7. #1367
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy Brown View Post
    My first question was why order the suspect out of the vehicle before backup arrived? They were about 30 seconds away. Its easy to MMQB, but I second Gray01 with taking it slower and assessing more. It looked to me that he did not expect the car to be where it was. Perhaps he thought it was farther in the parking lot...? Maybe its just me, but when the car began rolling, Id like to think Id move....
    Two words: presumed compliance.
    • It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
    • If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
    • "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG

  8. #1368
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    western US, specifically northern CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy Brown View Post
    My first question was why order the suspect out of the vehicle before backup arrived? They were about 30 seconds away. Its easy to MMQB, but I second Gray01 with taking it slower and assessing more. It looked to me that he did not expect the car to be where it was. Perhaps he thought it was farther in the parking lot...?

    Maybe its just me, but when the car began rolling, Id like to think Id move....
    Foxy, I checked your profile to see your background but I can't tell.

    Before trying to order the driver out of the suspect vehicle, there are other issues, concerns. Stolen cars often enough try to flee - so, while I'm ok (under the right conditions with explanation) with pinning the bad guy vehicle with the patrol car, I have a real hard time with walking in between the two. Rather than blocking and getting some distance, the opposite happened. Now the officer is a whole lot closer and about arm's length off the driver's side. For a number of reasons, I do not working vehicle problems on the driver's side (have a research paper & article in print on that).

    There are a few different ways of getting the car turned off and the occupants out. Distance helps. More friends &/or co-workers really helps.

    Cops have a hard time with people fleeing. So when a suspect vehicle starts to move, it becomes a flight issue that needs to be stopped. If one is too close, without either distance or cover, there may not be better options for handling it.

    In a discussion elsewhere, Quezada v. Bernallilo County came up. It's a 1983 (Federal civil rights violation) lawsuit regarding an OIS in New Mexico. The cop had cover but he left it and put himself out in front of the mentally ill subject they were, creating the jeopardy that led to the shooting.

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Regrding the Little Rock video - I'll avoid the interim / acting chief's statements.

    Patrol car positioning, officer's movement & path, and decisions as the car began to move may be worth discussing.
    The Little Rock PD literally just finished (victoriously) a suit about officers moving themselves in front of a slow moving car and then justifying lethal force. I can imagine their lawyers are not excited about giving it another go.

  10. #1370
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    Maryland
    Response to vehicles fleeing (or moving in general) needs to be beaten into cops at entry-level and in-service training. We react just like patrol dogs to a bad guy fleeing on foot. If the suspect is driving away (and deadly force is not appropriate), nothing good comes from these pointless interventions.

    Many years ago, I was riding with a friend from another agency when she stopped an unreported stolen vehicle. As she spoke with the driver, he threw it in gear and pulled away. Standing on the passenger side, my first instinct, which I fortunately resisted, was to grab the car to somehow stop in from leaving. I had been on the job for several years by that time. I intellectually knew I could not detain a moving car by grabbing it, but it was my first emotional reaction.

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