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Thread: LE UOF Video thread

  1. #3151
    Vending Machine Operator
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Good for Officer Tomburo. Very happy that she survived her wound and put the perp down.
    Almost no time at all between being hit and downed in pain and reengaging. Now that's the gets-you-home mindset.
    Business & Estate Attorney| Admitted Beretta and S&W M2.0 Fanboy

  2. #3152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Strangely enough, I just had an email about this, which included other participants here.

    I'd seen the video of the closet and the bedroom previously, but I had not seen the prior part entering the living room. It's tragic. Reading Enoka's work & thinking about working a dog should give some insight. Generally, I prefer lower ready positions. These three things intersected.
    After watching the video, I ran across another video I had not seen where a K9 deployment was attempted.

    https://youtu.be/le1RRl5vRt8

    While the two incidents are not similar in circumstance, a common theme comes to mind. I used to hate hearing it, but it serves as a mental check and balance if the situation allows for some critical decision making. How bad can things turn out? What have I done to prepare for it. What have I done to mitigate that outcome. Even though hindsight isn't supposed to factor in afterwards, guess what.

    Playing catch up because you were out front holding a dog and manipulating a door that your K9 has already alerted on is not an ideal circumstance.

    Entering an apartment with an armed suspect who is displaying irrational behavior is not an ideal circumstance.

    The turnover (retirements, quitting LE altogether, laterals, migration out of proactive units, etc) in LE is a real issue that leads to inconsistent results.

  3. #3153
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JF1 View Post
    After watching the video, I ran across another video I had not seen where a K9 deployment was attempted.

    https://youtu.be/le1RRl5vRt8

    While the two incidents are not similar in circumstance, a common theme comes to mind. I used to hate hearing it, but it serves as a mental check and balance if the situation allows for some critical decision making. How bad can things turn out? What have I done to prepare for it. What have I done to mitigate that outcome. Even though hindsight isn't supposed to factor in afterwards, guess what.

    Playing catch up because you were out front holding a dog and manipulating a door that your K9 has already alerted on is not an ideal circumstance.

    Entering an apartment with an armed suspect who is displaying irrational behavior is not an ideal circumstance.

    The turnover (retirements, quitting LE altogether, laterals, migration out of proactive units, etc) in LE is a real issue that leads to inconsistent results.
    Our policy would’ve made that incident a barricade. On duty SWAT would’ve handled it or it would’ve been a callout. Depending on the circumstances involved we might have walked away from it if she wouldn’t come out.

    I’ve been called to other jurisdictions where they were going to make entry on what is a barricade for us. I’ve had to tell their sergeants no to a dog deployment. Then I stood by outside to assist as needed.

    This is a perfect example of what happens when everyone wants to move up and block doorways and hallways. SWAT was always hold at a set position and only move up if called for by a TL or ATL. They blocked access for the dog team then jammed up the doorway. When the handler went down it was a guarantee that someone was getting bit at that point which ended up being the stabbing victim from what I could see.

    The way I would’ve handled it was Immediate Action/Reaction Team in the hallway behind cover with negotiations done from that point. My plan for her coming out armed and non compliant would’ve been less lethal beanbags her with lethal coverage. If she drops the knife the dog gets sent. If she doesn’t no dog deployment. Continue with beanbags as needed maybe Taser if she’s in range. If she advances with the knife she gets shot.

    I always talked to the beanbagger beforehand and made sure we were on the same page. There was a lot of times my plan was on a non compliant suspect exiting a structure I could justify biting was: A. Unarmed/non compliant B. Gets beanbagged C. Dog is sent on the first shot. I’d tell the beanbagger they might have time to get a second shot in but watch the dog.

    One thing that really got stressed in our program was you have to know when it’s a dog call and when it’s a gun call. Don’t send your dog on suicide missions. I’ve been to plenty of state and National seminars were this is taught too.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.* Thucydides 471BC

    "Hey! Let's be careful out there." Sgt Phil Esterhaus played by Michael Conrad

  4. #3154
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Fort Worth, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    Our policy would’ve made that incident a barricade. On duty SWAT would’ve handled it or it would’ve been a callout. Depending on the circumstances involved we might have walked away from it if she wouldn’t come out.

    I’ve been called to other jurisdictions where they were going to make entry on what is a barricade for us. I’ve had to tell their sergeants no to a dog deployment. Then I stood by outside to assist as needed.

    This is a perfect example of what happens when everyone wants to move up and block doorways and hallways. SWAT was always hold at a set position and only move up if called for by a TL or ATL. They blocked access for the dog team then jammed up the doorway. When the handler went down it was a guarantee that someone was getting bit at that point which ended up being the stabbing victim from what I could see.

    The way I would’ve handled it was Immediate Action/Reaction Team in the hallway behind cover with negotiations done from that point. My plan for her coming out armed and non compliant would’ve been less lethal beanbags her with lethal coverage. If she drops the knife the dog gets sent. If she doesn’t no dog deployment. Continue with beanbags as needed maybe Taser if she’s in range. If she advances with the knife she gets shot.

    I always talked to the beanbagger beforehand and made sure we were on the same page. There was a lot of times my plan was on a non compliant suspect exiting a structure I could justify biting was: A. Unarmed/non compliant B. Gets beanbagged C. Dog is sent on the first shot. I’d tell the beanbagger they might have time to get a second shot in but watch the dog.

    One thing that really got stressed in our program was you have to know when it’s a dog call and when it’s a gun call. Don’t send your dog on suicide missions. I’ve been to plenty of state and National seminars were this is taught too.
    I really appreciate your k9 posts here. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with us.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  5. #3155
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Strangely enough, I just had an email about this, which included other participants here.

    I'd seen the video of the closet and the bedroom previously, but I had not seen the prior part entering the living room. It's tragic. Reading Enoka's work & thinking about working a dog should give some insight. Generally, I prefer lower ready positions. These three things intersected.
    I had to google for more information about this one. They’re looking for him for a felony warrants involving a firearm. Again for us once they determine he’s there and won’t come out it’s a barricade due to the firearm. SWAT gets called out. Negotiations, LSDDs, chemical agents before any entry is made. Dog clears a room and gets called back so SWAT can double check it. If he alerts on a door it’s the TLs decision what to do. I can tell you it doesn’t involve the handler standing in the doorway holding his dog and a gun.

    Generally I tried to avoid holding my pistol when I was working my dog. If it was a long hall way with lots of doors I might have it out but anytime I had to working hands on it was in the holster.

    If we had to open a door to send the dog through I tried to let my cover guys open it slightly and I’d send my dog from behind them. He would push it open on entry. If there’s an alert it’s on the handler to decide what to do.

    There were times where I had to self cover. The narrow areas between a house and a wall where one person could walk were one. I’d generally be at low ready doing that. I didn’t like it but sometimes it was necessary. If I had to shoot my plan was drop the leash and fire as needed.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.* Thucydides 471BC

    "Hey! Let's be careful out there." Sgt Phil Esterhaus played by Michael Conrad

  6. #3156
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    Maryland
    Perhaps I missed something, but I'm not sure why the San Diego incident occurred. As far as I could see, the woman opened the door with a knife in hand, but accepted the eviction notice. Things went off the rails with the demands for her to drop the knife (or gun, as the deputy repeatedly said in his verbal commands). It would seem the deputy could have simply withdrawn since she didn't seem to threaten or assault him.

    Given the woman's behavior and mental state, I think the actual eviction would likely end up being a SWAT operation, but that could have been planned and organized.

  7. #3157
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Perhaps I missed something, but I'm not sure why the San Diego incident occurred. As far as I could see, the woman opened the door with a knife in hand, but accepted the eviction notice. Things went off the rails with the demands for her to drop the knife (or gun, as the deputy repeatedly said in his verbal commands). It would seem the deputy could have simply withdrawn since she didn't seem to threaten or assault him.

    Given the woman's behavior and mental state, I think the actual eviction would likely end up being a SWAT operation, but that could have been planned and organized.
    Correct, job was done, time to leave

  8. #3158
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Perhaps I missed something, but I'm not sure why the San Diego incident occurred. As far as I could see, the woman opened the door with a knife in hand, but accepted the eviction notice. Things went off the rails with the demands for her to drop the knife (or gun, as the deputy repeatedly said in his verbal commands). It would seem the deputy could have simply withdrawn since she didn't seem to threaten or assault him.

    Given the woman's behavior and mental state, I think the actual eviction would likely end up being a SWAT operation, but that could have been planned and organized.
    Yes I didn’t understand why they pushed it.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.* Thucydides 471BC

    "Hey! Let's be careful out there." Sgt Phil Esterhaus played by Michael Conrad

  9. #3159
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    Away, away, away, down.......
    One of those times when low ready is not a viable ready position, and having a house as a backstop is a thing.

    Details are available in the description on youtube

    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 09-22-2022 at 07:46 PM.

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