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Thread: How do I stop once a decision to fire has been made?

  1. #11
    How fast is this draw fire 1?

    Because the simple answer is stop applying pressure to the trigger... the moment the scenario dictates it.
    Last edited by Hrhawk; 01-11-2018 at 04:56 AM.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fairfield County, CT
    You sound like you want to do scenario based, decision heavy force on force classes as a supplement to your skills based training.

    Something that puts you in the scenario with sims guns, verbal interactions, branching decisions in which you may or may not have to apply the bang switch, the training knife or the boot to ass...

    If only someone did training like that...

    http://shivworks.com/
    http://www.toddrassatraining.com/

  3. #13
    One suggestion would be to do some of the dry fire drills Tom Givens has posted that include drawing to a low ready. Another good practice could be drawing and getting a sight picture but leaving the trigger finger indexed on the frame rather than touching or pulling the trigger.
    @Dagga Boy has posted a good bit and mentioned in a podcast about making decisions to stop before actually firing a shot. He and @Wayne Dobbs have a training company called HiTS that is most definitely on my list of places to get training from.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    NJ 07922
    I'm in no way discounting any dry fire drills or draw-to position practice, but if I'm reading the OP's intention right, he's looking for a way to train to "hit the brakes" when stimuli (predominantly visual?) change the "shoot" to a "no-shoot". I can think of a couple ideas on how to do it, but they all involve interactive or moving targets of some form; I'm having a hard time coming up with something static and with an external triggering of shoot/no-shoot swapping.

    Maybe i'm over-thinking it, but to me it's the external, uncontrolled by the shooter factor that's seems important. It's hard to be "honest" with yourself that you're making the shoot/no-shoot decision as late and as unknown ahead of time as possible; we're all fantastic liars when it comes to our selves.

    ETA: In case it wasn't clear, i'm only considering solo practice, not interactive with another human being calling your shots.
    Last edited by hufnagel; 01-11-2018 at 07:28 AM.
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  5. #15
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Wasatch Front
    JLW, a member here, teaches in the Atlanta metroplex. While I haven't been a student, I've seen his writings here, watched his presentations at TacCon, and had a few discussions with him. Even though he is a cop, hardly a prejoritive, his material will be more than sufficient. Soon, he will host Dave Spaulding, another I can wholw heartedly recommend. Tom Givens travels in that area; as does Randy Cain. Outside of Nashville is Ron Fielder. Anyone of those gentlemen can help you address the issue you are concerned about.

    The suggestion to draw to the Ready or a Sight Picture and NOT shoot is viable.

    I think concerns like yours are legitimate and they may be a spin off from the push for pure speed. MAY. Take a look at thew thread of assessment speed.

  6. #16
    Member
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    Oct 2014
    Location
    Atlanta
    Yes, you guys get it. I want to train to hit the brakes. Not just hitting the accelerator.

  7. #17
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    Central FL
    Quote Originally Posted by KeithH View Post

    How do I find a trainer that can give me a total makeover and teach me how to build confidence in this area?
    If you are in Atlanta, I'd contact Claude Werner for training options:

    https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/about/

    Slightly further afield, but still in Georgia, another option, already mentioned, is @jlw, who is active on this forum and owner / operator of First Person Safety:

    https://firstpersonsafety.com/about/

    I have met both of these gentlemen and would not hesitate to train with them.
    Last edited by RJ; 01-11-2018 at 08:30 AM.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Definitely seek scenario based training where you can respond to external stimuli and make real decisions. I am pretty skeptical of training that does not include scenarios for this type of training, you want to learn to stop when there is no longer a threat, not when you see a blue balloon instead of a red one.

    Be mindful in your selection of instructors. I have trained with some very good instructors from both the LE and military side of the house. Sometimes, and this is a generalization, the instructors with military backgrounds are not as tuned in to teaching use of force decision making in the LE or civilian environment. They are extremely competent shooters, and you can learn a lot from them, but their focus is different.

  9. #19
    You simply need to be putting reps in at not shooting. Draws to ready, draws to on target but with a finger off the trigger. Returning to targets Post reload or malfunction clearance and not having a finger on the trigger. Using a timer and actually stopping at the buzzer, including if you are I. The middle of a press.
    I am of the opinion that a lot of folks practice shooting and are always chasing improvement shooting performance and very little time with use of force performance.
    Wayne and I have incorporated numerous drills and criteria into our drills to maximize shooting performance with some factors of force performance. It is often hard from both a performance standpoint as well as habit breaking from pure shooting performance aspects.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
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  10. #20
    Get some one to join you at the range. Have them yell "stop" mid draw, or come up with a way for them to give a visual stop indication. Incorporate this randomly in your draw practice so it's a surprise. You could also do this in dry practice.

    ETA: "Square range" drills like these are a good start. Ultimately they should be further trained and tested in good quality force on force training.

    If you can already safely draw from a holster, check my Fundamental Handgun section. My goal for the site is to provide "vetted" instructors, at least per Pistol-Forum standards. It's very much a work in progress. That said, I don't see anything listed near Atlanta for the first quarter of 2018.

    I'll echo the above mentioned First Person Safety and Claude Werner in Atlanta. There I plan to list both instructors "SoonTM", just haven't gotten around to it.
    Last edited by David S.; 01-11-2018 at 10:19 AM.
    David S.

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