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Thread: Armed Rescue Task Force Medics

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    South Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    One things that pops into my mind, regarding this subject, is that so very much of LE training, at the cadet level, and in-service training of sworn officers, involves things that have zero application in an emergency/disaster situation. An ARTFM would not need this LE- and investigation-oriented training, and would need considerably less legal training, because their mission would not include investigation, interrogation, search-and-seizure, obtaining warrants, detention, running persons and property through local, state and NCIC databases, entering official original police reports, etc.

    Its seems quite logical that a significant number of emergency medics be trained, and legally allowed to be armed, in order to, at the very least, protect themselves and their patients.

    With the terr’s playbook having long recommended the targeting of first responders, and because fire/EMS personnel, in my region, generally arrive well before police, it seems logical to train and equip them to deal with this probability with more than just their scissors. Explosions have been followed by gun-totin’ terrs OCONUS, so it follows that we will see it happen locally, sooner or later.

    I will leave the debate overwhether EMS personnel should be entering “hot” scenes/zones, to others, smarter than I am.

    I did notice that the Texas Penal Code was recently changed to increase the number of places that EMS personnel, with handgun carry licenses, can be armed with handguns. I had figured this was mostly to allow volunteer EMS personnel to respond to an emergency, and handle the transport of patients, without having to disarm themselves, or leave weapons inside unattended vehicles, but now wonder if this legislative change may have been at least partially prompted by a move toward armed on-duty EMS personnel.
    Rex that’s a great response, you quite perfectly and eloquently described what I was trying to describe as my reasoning towards arming medics vs. turning cops into medics.


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  2. #32
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Consider: If your purpose in arming FF/EMS on RTFs is last resort protection of self, patient, or the CCP the training issues become much simpler. CCW tasks, bell curve shooting problems, and a number of 2-3 day training products would be credible solutions. I would be quite comfortable putting some of my smart-selected FF/EMTs through Tom's Combative Pistol 1 and bringing them along with a cover team/protection officers. It needn't be as complicated as many will make it.
    Last edited by ST911; 01-07-2018 at 11:37 AM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  3. #33
    I think Rex G and ST911 nailed it, with emphasis on the "smart selected" portion. I think the same also applies to training the assaulters in rapid bleeding control and very simple airway maneuvers. The medical side of the house tends to want full paramedics on TEMS-style operations. The assaulters can easily be taught basic buddy care techniques. It doesn't solve the problem of mass casualty triage, care, and extraction but it makes the assault team more survivable, especially in the early part of an active shooter response where true SWAT and TEMS won't yet be on scene.

  4. #34
    The problem with arming the nedics is they always want to be some kind of an "operator", and it never seems to end well.

    Case in point:

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...on-1660734.php

  5. #35
    I don't think the fire/medic world has a monopoly on moronic behavior when granted access to Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosive. Law Enforcement has their own history of personnel who suddenly get hit with the stupid stick. Selection would be key, just like you would do with LEOs.

    Lest I confuse the issue by supporting personal sidearms for selected members of an RTF: I support the original concept of the mixed PD/FD task force, with PD focusing on protection and FD or EMS focusing on triage, rapid bleeding control, and evacuation to a safe treatment area. Personal protection training and weapons would be a good advancement, but are not critical to applying the concept.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    Well think I just found my dream job. Would be a perfect fit if I complete the ER -> Critical Care pathway.

    edit to contribute slightly more:

    Do most PDs/SOs have the resources to put together TEMS units or even TEMS members of a SWAT team?

    The issue to me seems that it would be very difficult to get enough Paramedics to buy in to the kind of training that would be required to make them effective - let alone not actively counter productive.While I understand and sympathize with Chris Kyle's mindset ("if you're wearing a vest you should be carrying a gun") the reality is it takes a lot less training to put on a vest than it does to effectively use a handgun as a first responder.

    Perhaps I am confused, as the author refers to giving training to RTF members. If RTFs are quickly assembled in the field by on-site 1st responders, how you ensure that they received weapons and tactical training in advance? Most metro areas have >1 ambulance company between private, fire, and public EMS. Unless you got them all to buy in, it seems impossible to ensure that the first responding ambulance crew would have the training to use a weapon effectively as part of an RTF.

    Not to mention the hazy legal ground re: their use of force.... but maybe I'm misunderstanding the thrust of the article.
    I may have mentioned before, but the county to the north of me has/had MDs and serious medical professionals as reserve deputies. Doc will know more about this. They often work with tactical units as medical support. My local Sheriff's office has an BLS ambulance staffed by armed reserve officers with armor and the appropriate medical training. In critical incidents, the idea is that they can go in and get people, while the rest of EMS stages outside until the scene is secured. I think you'd fit right in on one of these crews. Like anything, get started, and if you're 10-8, then other possibilities open up quickly. Find out if your local Sheriff's office has a reserve program, and what they really do. If it's just festivals and parades, you might want to pass. If it's patrol and SAR, you may find a home, especially with your skills.

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