What's your favorite striker-fired action based on internal engineeing and design?

[NH Shooter]

For the record, just because people have a different opinion based upon their experiences and preferences doesn't mean they've been brainwashed. But, of course, that's exactly what a brainwashed person would say.

I guess the concept of a long, heavy trigger pull being beneficial because I might (without realizing it) put my finger on the trigger and start pulling it before I've actually made the decision to fire seems contradictory to even the most basic gun handling practices. Could it be that Glock's "Safe Action" is also marketed to agencies as a way for them to minimize training costs and reduce ND liabilities? If I were in charge of marketing for Glock, it's certainly an angle I would consider taking, and perhaps even offer something like the "NY trigger" to make it even more difficult to fire, unintentionally or not. ;-)

FWIW, I'm not a "Glock hater" by any stretch. Until just recently, I've owned at least one for the last 20 years. It's the only pistol I ever owned that had absolutely zero issues and not a single failure of any kind (I wish the same could be said for my Colts, S&Ws, etc.). If I was LEO and was issued a Glock, there would be zero doubt that I would carry the same as my personal weapon. There are many excellent and valid reasons to articulate one's choice of a Glock as a personal carry weapon, but IMO the characteristics of the trigger pull isn't one of them - it seems to me more a deficit that a Student of the Pistol accepts and trains around to reap the benefits of carrying a Glock.

Of course, all of the above is simply one person's opinion.

[spinmove_]

Glocks are stupid simple to operate, stupid simple to take apart completely, and stupid simple to take care of. Couple that with the fact that they’re affordable and stand up well to neglect and abuse and you’ve got a recipe for something that’s just going to stick. It’s not perfect, despite their marketing, but they’re damn hard to argue against. 36 years after its debut and everyone is still trying to build the “Glock killer” should tell you something.

That said, no one is forcing you to like Glocks. There’s plenty of good fish in the sea.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Simong]

NH Shooter. NYPD wish to have 8 LB trigger, NY trigger is anywhere between 11 to 12 + LB.

Another thing I'm not sure I understood exactly what you meant about PPQ "Dead Trigger" but I had a problem with my PPQ of a dead trigger, almost every time after I "double Tapped"
a round would chamber I would get a full reset but when you press the trigger again nothing happens trigger was dead.
Problem was fixed fast & free by Walther without any explanation.

Simong.

[dpadams6]

Glocks are stupid simple to operate, stupid simple to take apart completely, and stupid simple to take care of. Couple that with the fact that they’re affordable and stand up well to neglect and abuse and you’ve got a recipe for something that’s just going to stick. It’s not perfect, despite their marketing, but they’re damn hard to argue against. 36 years after its debut and everyone is still trying to build the “Glock killer” should tell you something.

That said, no one is forcing you to like Glocks. There’s plenty of good fish in the sea.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

I don't believe there are many, that could argue with this.^^^^

[Lomshek]

I am not familiar enough with the M&P, so has anyone done a deep dive on the details of the M&P's safety systems, like we have on various other platforms?

I'm not an armorer but I've installed a couple Apex FSS trigger kits in full size M&P's and an Apex AEK trigger/sear kit in a Shield. In the process of those I had to diagnose and fix (with some calls and emails to Apex) a dead trigger, some light strikes and some doubling. The fixes included having to modify an Apex sear to increase the amount of overlap between the sear and striker as well as a number of other tweaks.

All that's to preface that I'm not a pro but have a pretty good grasp of the M&P system.

All my guns are Gen 1's so some of this has changed with the Gen 2's.

For the Gen 1 M&P's the "seesaw" sear design is pretty safe from dead trigger syndrome because you have the sear spring driving the sear up into engagement with the striker and the mechanical lock of the sear/striker engagement caused by the striker spring tension.
For that to fail would require an impact inline with the bore from the rear that further cocked the striker (compressing the already compressed spring) to pull the striker back off the sear so the sear could travel downward while simultaneously the sear were driven downward by inertia on the vertical axis (like a smack on the bottom of the grip upwards 90 degrees off from what would be required to take striker tension off the sear in the first place) to compress the sear spring.
Driving the sear down by inertia would be very hard because it weighs nothing and the "seesaw" design means there would be as much weight coming up as down which would negate any inertial force. (I'm not an engineer so the engineers out there will have to forgive me if I'm using incorrect terminology which hopefully doesn't confuse the description).

For inertia from a drop to operate the trigger would be pretty difficult because of the integral trigger safety (S&W or Apex) plus the total travel and pull weight it would have to move and the fairly light weight of the trigger and trigger bar.

The short of it is I'm confident the M&P (Gen 1 at least) design is very drop safe for what that's worth to anyone else.

After messing with the Apex parts and various spring combos in the future for carry here's my ideal combination. I'll be getting a Gen 2 compact pretty soon so will see if all this holds true.

1 - S&W sear with Apex FSS sear spring to create the maximum upward force on the sear and maintain full sear/striker engagement. This is heavier than factory (IIRC) and would increase how fast the sear jumps up to catch and cock the striker at the expense of adding a pound or so to the trigger pull weight to reduce/eliminate the chance of the old "dead trigger" problem. If you're OK with reducing sear/striker overlap from .05" to .03" (that can be modified by custom fitting the Apex sear if you're real brave or stupid) then you can go with the Apex AEK sear but after messing with them I want more engagement to again reduce the chances of a dead trigger. I'd be real curious what the S&W Performance Center sear is like but I'm not paying a premium to let them put one in for me. If they ever sell them separately I'd buy one to compare and try it.

2 - Install an Apex USB to reduce that "hitch" in the middle of the trigger travel before sear engagement.

3 - I personally like the feel of the Apex triggers so would go with them over the factory M&P hinged trigger. Thus far I have kept the stronger factory trigger return spring rather than the lighter Apex ones.

All that gives me a smoother than factory trigger in the 6-7 pound range with a good "wall" at the end that tells you you're about to go bang.

[spyderco monkey]

Anyways, this lead me to wonder, what's everyone's favorite striker-fired design from a purely mechanical/internal perspective? Taking away ergonomics, barrel design, and all of the other external stuff, and focusing just on the actual engineering that is the striker-fired action itself, what's your favorite, and why?

Personally, I always thought the Walther P99 DA/SA striker design was the coolest. Totally unique, and you can tell they put a ton of work into the design.



I'd love to see the same DA/SA striker applied to a pocket pistol / single stack.

[dpadams6]

Personally, I always thought the Walther P99 DA/SA striker design was the coolest. Totally unique, and you can tell they put a ton of work into the design.



I'd love to see the same DA/SA striker applied to a pocket pistol / single stack.

Thanks for the good pic. Totally agree and why i think the p99as, could very well be, the best of all striker fired.

[fly out]

I prefer hammers, but my favorite striker design was Steyr's -A1 setup, until I bought a P99c AS. Yes, it has a great trigger, but it's also interesting to open it up and see how they did it.

I can appreciate the engineering thought that went into the Glock design to end up with something that's simple, robust and inexpensive to manufacture. They're not my thing, but I understand why people like them. I've looked twice at a 19X.

[arcfide]

I hope you can do that some time.

I managed to get this done finally. It's not very good, and it's very long, slow, and plodding, but I hope that it will at least be relatively clear enough for those interested who do not have an APX at home, or who do have one at home and just want their hand held through the whole process.

[Doc_Glock]

I managed to get this done finally. It's not very good, and it's very long, slow, and plodding, but I hope that it will at least be relatively clear enough for those interested who do not have an APX at home, or who do have one at home and just want their hand held through the whole process.

That was long but really informative. It gave me a new appreciation for the designed in simplicity and robustness of the APX, and increased my respect for its designers. Very clever Beretta!