I’m going to sig in January. The class will be on the indoor range so frangible is required.
I’ve heard that this stuff does bad things to handguns so I’m considering using a loaner gun.
Class calls for 400 rounds of ammo, so realistically it’s 500...
Is this an amount that would make you say “nope...not in my gun!”?
If I use my own pistols should I do anything special to clean them afterwards?
500 should be fine.Originally Posted by Mitchell, Esq.
Frangible can cause accelerated wear in the throat of the barrel but that would take thousands, maybe tens of thousands of rounds.
Since frangible bullets are lighter, the rounds tend to operate at higher pressure and can cause extractor failures. I’ve seen this in P229s but it took a few thousand rounds.
No special cleaning required.
Last edited by HCM; 12-26-2017 at 01:38 PM.
I’ve heard, but not seen, reports of issues with breech face erosion in pistols that are fed an exclusive diet of reduced lead/lead free ammo. According to said reports, the issue is the lead free primers burn hotter than traditional primers, leading to the breech face erosion. These reports come out of institutional, and usually academy type, settings, so it’s likely the guns were fed A LOT of these primers. Personally, I would not worry about quantities under the many thousands.
Just a head’s up regarding Sig Academy- they have two indoor ranges, one that allows traditional ammo. It might be worthwhile to call and ask which one your class is scheduled for. The old/“pistol” range requires frangible, the new/“rifle” range can take normal ammo.
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
Students at FLETC put a few thousand rounds per year through their Beretta, SIG, Glock and HK pistols using non-toxic frang ammo with no apparent ill effects. The training is done with either loaner guns from FLETC or the students issued duty weapon.
My agency has some loaner guns that see tens of thousands of rounds of non-toxic frang per year with no apparent ill effects. Students can use their own issue duty pistol instead during these training courses.
I'm wondering if maybe the frang barrel wear problems are a yester-year issue that isn't applicable to current production ammo. Even 5+ years ago, I remember it being a load specific issue....some frang caused it, some did not.
Last edited by TGS; 12-26-2017 at 01:44 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
I emailed.
If they require frangible I'll get a loaner gun. I requested a 239 or a 320 subcompact with a thumb safety (if that combo is possible).
Non-issue for such use.
Also note that you can get cartridges with frangible, non-frangible lead free, and conventional projectiles, which are loaded with lead free or conventional primers. Ask the range what they require in particular, a particular sku if possible. I think Sig will sell you what you need, which is probably easiest.
Last edited by ST911; 12-26-2017 at 03:29 PM.
الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب
I've been to sig a bunch of times and shot probably around 1,000 rnds of their frang through one of my G19's and a few hundred more through a g43 with no issues. Definitely call first as others have said. If you are in the range in the main classroom building you're going to need frang, but for the other indoor rifle range, you're good with fmj. Their frang is not cheap, just fyi if money is at all a factor. It was like $20-25 per 50 iirc. I've brought an equivalent amount of quality fmj with me all three times I was stuck with frang and all three times someone else in the class either legitimacy didn't know and brought fmj, or feigned ignorance, but the instructors were willing to do an even swap of fmj for frang. Ymmv, and I'd guess this is off the books and totally dependant on the instructor.
The only bad thing I'd mention I've experienced there is that I don't think they do a great job of vetting their students abilities prior to the class. I had a guy in my handgun 104 class that had literally never fired a semiautomatic handgun before. This is a class where we were doing things like weak hand draws and malfunction clearances, or shooting around cars in offhand positions. The dude was two down the line and every time I looked over he scared the ever loving shit out of me.
SIG confirmed frangible is not required.
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