Greg E article on effectiveness of dogs

[Mjolnir]

I have found GSDs to be VERY pricy while a good working Mal to be relatively inexpensive.

Oh, check out the Donovan Pinscher!


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[Mjolnir]

Interestingly, contrary to some popular opinion, from what I understand the Bandog was designed to be the ultimate large guard dog. It was originally a mix between a male pit bull and female Neopolitan Mastiff. The Neopolitan Mastiff is a large Italian breed that is supposedly the descendant of the dogs the Romans used to fight in the arena. Unfortunately, many modern breeders prized excess size and wrinkles that make the head look like a Shar Pei on steroids leading to health problems and lack of athleticism--as in a short lived dog that can barely walk a few blocks.

Anyway, the Bandog was supposed to produce a healthy, athletic, large, protective dog. Since that time other breeds have been introduced to the US that would seem to fill this role--the Pressa Carario from the Canary Islands off Spain, and the Cane Corso from Italy--I believe Sicily. The Cane Corso looks like a more athletic Neopolitan Mastiff without the Shar Pei excessive skin. I don't really have a lot of experience with either dog. I have seen quite a variation in the examples of each that I have seen.

A much better ban dog would be a Cane Corso. The Corso was the phenotype of the Roman dogs not the Neo.

The Presa is nice if you can find a breeder breeding dogs that can cover a lot of ground in the heat. Most are too stocky like the Boerbel is being bred today.

The Fila reminds me of the precursor to the Bloodhound - the Cuban Bloodhound. Filas are quite the handful as they seem easily stressed to the point of attacking way out of proportion to what the dog is.

If I had to choose I'd take the Corso - a WORKING STRAIN variant.


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[Mjolnir]

I was reading stories online about pits, one guy posted how he had a pit, and another dog, and he came home to a bloody mess and a smiling pit, and no second dog. Dogs are like people. Sometimes they just go off the reservation.

Actually, it did what it was bred to do. Too many "fur moms" push the "nanny dog" BS.

A proper Pit Bulldog WILL fight other dogs. EXPECT IT.

My local gun store owner adopted a small Pit Bull bitch. She's sweet but shy. Well, she killed the Bassett Hound they also owned. He was one who fell for the "bait dog" myth and how they had to be trained to fight and the "nanny dog" stupidity. I tried to tell him; he refused to listen.

He also has the dog kenneled in the store which is stupid. The dog growls at a few of the workers while in the kennel. The owner tasks workers to let the dog out. No breaking sticks to be seen.

But the breed will get the bad rap...


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[Ed L]

A much better ban dog would be a Cane Corso. The Corso was the phenotype of the Roman dogs not the Neo.

From my understanding the Cane Corso was a recreated breed from a variety of dogs that kinda had a similar type:

http://www.canecorso-magazine.com/ma...ndex.html#p=21

This included introducing other dogs into the breeding --like the Neo Mastiff. Older style Neo Mastiffs looked more like Cane Corsos. Here is a picture of an older style Neo Mastiff:

[UNM1136]

If you want a good German Shepard or Malinois talk to your local k-9 Officer. The usually know breeders and trainers who have wash out police dogs that need a good home. Some times they weren’t aggressive enough. Some times they are too aggressive . A buddy got a Rottweiler that was super aggressive towards any male but him. That dog came from a prison. (Personally I thought that dog should have been destroyed. It was like leaving a loaded gun laying out) Don’t discount a giant schnauzer. A friend put one through schutzhund training.

Most PDs buy what the vendor sells. The vendor sells what they can buy and have pass selection they can buy darn near anything. I have seen this from the inside for the last three years. My mal has to be listed as "other breed" for schutzhund. Buy a dutch dog, and pedigrees are few and far between. The dutch, and the KNPV place zero emphasis on bloodlines, only on performance.

I have seen dogs shuffled out of training. The dogs that have problems with fight drive dkn't make good patrol dogs. They may make good detector dogs, if they have sufficient prey drive. Lacking that and you are relying food drive to train your dogs. The vendors need return on investment, and find ways to push marginal dogs into work. Even unacceptable dogs get sold for a (small) profit to the public, who truthfully are provided by "named" trainers. But if the dog has flaws that a skilled traner cannot overcome, what are your odds? You need to have a channel to communicate with and thus train your dog.

Local PD officers in most cases can tell you who they buy thier dogs from. A better option for finding a good dog is finding a local schutzhund group (or ring sport, ad nauseum) and start learning about desireable traits in dogs. Someone in the club, over a reasonable time period is bound to have a litter, or an older dog that needs a new home. Once you learn what traits to look for, you can start selecting puppies. Then the crapshoot begins. Good parents are no guarantee, nor is the best trainer in the world, it is an amalglamation. A good trainer can bring a mediocher dog around, and genetically gifted dog can survive a bad trainer in many circumstances....

It really is a crapshoot. Raising a promising dog now makes me very much aware how tentative the blend of genetics, socialization, and training combine to create a shot at success.

pat

[Ed L]

Oh, check out the Donovan Pinscher!

To read the whole article, just register with any phoney email address--they don't check or require a password:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...J8L/story.html

[Poconnor]

Just like anything else; it depends on the integrity of the trainer. We were lucky to have a very dedicated trainer who was importing dogs from Europe. But I understand what you are saying. A dog is a line item to a bean counter and they don’t care about quality just cost

[BehindBlueI's]

Last night one of my rookie detectives had a home invasion. The victim residence had two pitbulls, and the intruder was bit. The intruder attacked the dog with a knife, not injuring it but dissuading it, and completed the robbery.

[Robert Mitchum]

To read the whole article, just register with any phoney email address--they don't check or require a password:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...J8L/story.html

I stated in my early post he was not a stand up guy.

"The Breeder is not the best example of a human ..but he did breed some serious dogs".

[Robert Mitchum]

This is why they use Neapolitan mastiff in Bandog breeding's.
They are back breakers and strong enough to do combat with humans.
Breed in a game bread Pit or a Presa Canario and you have a handful of dog.