Let's Talk Shotgun Training

[P.E. Kelley]

Let's see.....

Started with a guy from SEAL Team 5 getting all the stuff they were getting from John Shaw at MISS
Police Academy....I was a shooter so I spent many lunches shooting shotgun with our FBI SWAT instructor that worked with the Academy range staff
In Service training
LAPD "D" Platoon with Larry Mudgett, Ralph Morton, Scotty Reitz and John Helms from SIS (This was hugely influential)
POST Firearms Instructor
SIG Academy Shotgun Instructor (40 hours)
GSGI Shotgun (all SEAL's)
NRA LE Shotgun Instructor (44 hours)
Bill Jeans Shotgun
Rob Haught....twice
ITTS with Scott Reitz
Also shot a lot with Michael Harries (API Staff) in SoCal and competitively in LE matches, and 3 Gun.

I am sure there are others I forgot to list. Done thousands of high risk searches and operations with the 12ga. Shot a carjacker with one. Also operationally killed a street light with a Brenneke. I've taught a ton of it. It is REALLY my thing for long guns. The Internet thinks I am antiquated, which is probably true, but I will still take a shotgun over just about anything for a majority of situations I will likely ever need a gun for.

FWIW I have never taken a shooting class, but you are on the top of the list if I were to take one on the last great Power Tool.

[Unobtanium]

Probably instructor dependent. See list of required items. I've taken DB's class twice. That's it. The biggest thing to learn is feeding the beast.

My only shotgun context is home defense. As with all home defense, you'll probably be going to "your war" with what you have on/in the gun, so that's all I brought. I recognize that the dump pouch wont be there if I ever use this thing for realzies. The (not required) dump pouch is super helpful for keeping up with the flow.

The first time I attended, I brought:
-18"(I think) 870 with an extended tube. Bead sight. I added Magpul forward sling mount for a two point sling.
-dump pouch.
-required ammo.

The next year, Same stuff, plus:
-Magpul SGA, primarily because the shotgun flopped around when slung from factory point. Big improvement over factory
-VC Big Dome Safety. Big improvement over factory
-IFAK, because I took a medical class.

Next year, Same stuff, plus:
-forward mounted RDS.
-sidesaddle.
-Fab defense forend on JLW's recommendation. X300u.
We'll see how that goes.

I think there's some value in training with a KISS shotgun before adding RDS, side saddle, etc.

My thing is this. I know what I like for fun. But for a serious shotgun, I have no experience. I remember my first carbine.

14.5 pinned noveske switchblock monolithic vis.
Trijicon 1.5 mini acog
Surefire full-size can
Surefire scout m300


I loved playing with it at the range, but actual vtac courses saw that gun radically change, and ultimately be sold off. Skipping that financial aspect of the learning process is not an undesirable thing nowdays.

[Unobtanium]

Of all the wonderful options available, who should be my choice for a class?

Assume it may be the only shotgun class I ever take.
The closer it is to southern MO the better, but I'm willing to drove up to 12 hours.
If in drive 12 hours, it needs to be a 3+ day event. I'm not about to drive 24 hours total for 10 hours of instruction, unless it's deemed that this 10 hours is better than any 30 hours from another instructor.
I have taken Frank Proctor performance pistol, Craig Douglas AMIS, VTAC carbine 1.5, street fighter, and night fighter. That is the extent of my formal training.

[ranger]

I took one formal class with Lund Performance & Consulting (Erik Lund): Performance Shotgun. It was a one day event - I learned a lot. Would love to take another one day shotgun class from Erik. Never got into 3 Gun but the shotgun phase of 3 Gun seems dominated by reloading not shooting - that was a "clue" to me about shotgun training and the importance of reloading skills.

[Dagga Boy]

A few things I have learned from three decades as both a student and instructor of the Thunderstick.

For a majority of folks who are not serious dedicated shotgun users, anything more than a two day class is too much. I have gotten by far he best results and the most learning occurring with a solid one day course. My dream way of teaching the 12ga. Is with multiple one day courses that build over time. From a pure Basic to an Offensive use based class. That way guns and skills improve and change in a pace consistent with long term retention.

The shotgun in practical use is a manipulations and tactics based thing more than a marksmanship based thing if the gun fits and you have a good understanding of consistently mounting the gun. After that, it's a running the gun thing.

My future plans when I retire again will be teaching defensive/offensive shotgun exclusively on the road, and focused on places where folks are heavily restricted on carbine and over semi auto centerfire weapons use. It is really my niche and my lane, so I am going to stick to it. It is one area where I know there are very few folks in this country who have an experience base balance of extensive field use, understanding of legalities, and teaching the gun along with a true understanding of how they work in the field. Most of the folks who are real experts (both with field experience and teaching) are retiring, so it is a good fit for me.
I'love be doing my first forays at Tac Con his year with both a classroom lecture and a range class on the Offensive use of the shotgun which is very different from its traditional role.

[David S.]

Of all the wonderful options available, who should be my choice for a class?

Assume it may be the only shotgun class I ever take.
The closer it is to southern MO the better, but I'm willing to drove up to 12 hours.
If in drive 12 hours, it needs to be a 3+ day event. I'm not about to drive 24 hours total for 10 hours of instruction, unless it's deemed that this 10 hours is better than any 30 hours from another instructor.
I have taken Frank Proctor performance pistol, Craig Douglas AMIS, VTAC carbine 1.5, street fighter, and night fighter. That is the extent of my formal training.

Shameless self promotion.

Early next year I see Ernest Langdon in OKC, Steve Fisher in Dover, TN, and Tom Givens Shotgun Instructor Dev in Nashville.

I added Rangemaster Instructor Development. I took Tom's Handgun ID course this year. There were several students attending it as their first formal training. If you're interested, it may be worth asking Tom.

[TCinVA]

Of all the wonderful options available, who should be my choice for a class?

Assume it may be the only shotgun class I ever take.
The closer it is to southern MO the better, but I'm willing to drove up to 12 hours.
If in drive 12 hours, it needs to be a 3+ day event. I'm not about to drive 24 hours total for 10 hours of instruction, unless it's deemed that this 10 hours is better than any 30 hours from another instructor.
I have taken Frank Proctor performance pistol, Craig Douglas AMIS, VTAC carbine 1.5, street fighter, and night fighter. That is the extent of my formal training.

A 2 day Rob Haught class would be worthwhile for your needs.

Tom's 3 day instructor development class is great, but it assumes you have been through the standard instructor development class first.

[Cecil Burch]

What gear is needed to participate effectively in a shotgun class?

All I have seen listed is dummy rounds.

Shotgun is obvious. Sling is likely.

Dump pouch? Stripper deals for the belt to hold shells? Side saddle? Bandoleer? Pt belt?

Seriously, what all does one NEED before a quality class? I don't want to buy useless shit that I dump later, but in also don want to show up without necessary learning tools.

I ran through Rob's class with a side saddle on one 500, and an old Milt Sparks butt cuff on another. I also had a two shell belt carrier from Wilderness that was nice for secondary reloads. For more ammo, I just threw it in my pockets and reloaded the side saddle or butt cuff between drills. I had a sling on one gun, and no sling on the other. From the two classes I have been to (Rob. and Chris Fry), the sling is useful for holding onto the gun while standing around talking/listening to the instructor, and absolutely no use outside of that. It was a minor annoyance to have to hold my non-sling Mossberg during instructional portions, but not that big a deal. That was it for gear.

I saw a few guys using RDs, and some with more tactical ammo carriers like the Aridus side carrier, or the 3-gun style belt carriers, and a couple of dump pouches. None of them seemed to be a make or break thing. From what I have seen. if you have a quality shotgun, decent ammo (DO NOT get the cheapo WallyWorld special), and one way to carry ammo (either side saddle, butt cuff, or a single belt carrier of some kind, you will be good to go. Add an inexpensive sling (if you don't already have one) for convenience's sake, and you will get through a class just fine.

which just goes to show another benefit of shotgun classes - it has the lowest level of gear requirements of any firearms course I have been to.

[Unobtanium]

A few things I have learned from three decades as both a student and instructor of the Thunderstick.

For a majority of folks who are not serious dedicated shotgun users, anything more than a two day class is too much. I have gotten by far he best results and the most learning occurring with a solid one day course. My dream way of teaching the 12ga. Is with multiple one day courses that build over time. From a pure Basic to an Offensive use based class. That way guns and skills improve and change in a pace consistent with long term retention.

The shotgun in practical use is a manipulations and tactics based thing more than a marksmanship based thing if the gun fits and you have a good understanding of consistently mounting the gun. After that, it's a running the gun thing.

My future plans when I retire again will be teaching defensive/offensive shotgun exclusively on the road, and focused on places where folks are heavily restricted on carbine and over semi auto centerfire weapons use. It is really my niche and my lane, so I am going to stick to it. It is one area where I know there are very few folks in this country who have an experience base balance of extensive field use, understanding of legalities, and teaching the gun along with a true understanding of how they work in the field. Most of the folks who are real experts (both with field experience and teaching) are retiring, so it is a good fit for me.
I'love be doing my first forays at Tac Con his year with both a classroom lecture and a range class on the Offensive use of the shotgun which is very different from its traditional role.

Where are you located in TX? I drive to San Antonio often enough, are you somewhere near there? I am unsure based on your post, but will you be teaching any shotgun courses in your area this coming year?

[Unobtanium]

A 2 day Rob Haught class would be worthwhile for your needs.

Tom's 3 day instructor development class is great, but it assumes you have been through the standard instructor development class first.

Thank-you. I have reached out to Rob Haught. I do not want to hold up Tom's course, if it is meant for someone at a different place than myself, and think it would be rude to apply for it. Thanks again!