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Thread: Let's Talk Shotgun Training

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    I asked a SF CIF team leader about shotgun use in his team. This team was highly active and went out on hundreds of hits. His response regarding shotgun use and I'm paraphrasing. "We don't allow it. The shotgun is the king of the battlefield while it has ammo. However I require my guys to stay in the fight longer."
    Military and LE have very different views of the shotgun. I know of someone that served in the same position and as far as he was concerned, they were for breaching only. Just different applications.


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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Military and LE have very different views of the shotgun. I know of someone that served in the same position and as far as he was concerned, they were for breaching only. Just different applications.
    Roger, that is why I included the quote. My comment was just shotgun info and not intended to disparage civilian usage.

  3. #13
    I haven't taken his class yet (hope to make the VA running), but Tom Given's shotgun DVD is a good place to get started:

    http://rangemaster.com/publications/training-dvds/

  4. #14
    Site Supporter That Guy's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    Are there any quintessential shotgun drills?
    I really like the results my girlfriend has had from shooting a bunch of Bill Drills with her pump action shotgun. Perhaps not so necessary if you have a semi-automatic shotgun, but with a manual action that drill really helps work cycling the action properly. Very easy to set up, too. We use our old IDPA targets and try to keep the birdshot going through the same ragged hole in the target.

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  5. #15
    Formal Training:

    Rangemaster Defensive Shotgun Instructor
    Rangemaster Defensive Shotgun (student and AI)
    Lund Performance & Consulting (Erik Lund): Performance Shotgun
    HiTS (Bolke): One Day Shotgun
    Georgia Public Safety Training Center (GPSTC) Firearms Instructor shotgun block
    GPSTC Shotgun Instructor (40 hours)
    GPSTC Shotgun Skills (24 hours)
    FBI Police Firearms Instructor shotgun block
    IALEFI Master Instructor shotgun block

    ------

    The Social Shotgun is my favorite platform. I usually teach several shotgun classes per year and will be offering a revamped class soon as I have some new steel ordered.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  6. #16

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    I asked a SF CIF team leader about shotgun use in his team. This team was highly active and went out on hundreds of hits. His response regarding shotgun use and I'm paraphrasing. "We don't allow it. The shotgun is the king of the battlefield while it has ammo. However I require my guys to stay in the fight longer."
    I mean, this only makes sense in terms of what the military gets into, and especially direct action SF types that get into extremely hairy situations and are usually outnumbered. The shotgun just isn't gonna do them much good in those situations.

    I think this is high praise, if damning praise, for almost every other application outside of SF DA raids.

  8. #18
    I forgot. A class with Scotty Reitz is on my bucket list, too.

  9. #19
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    Formal training -

    What courses have you taken, and how has it benefited your shotgunning?
    The most useful was the Rangemaster Shotgun Instructor's course in October of last year.


    Who's your shotgun instructor or class bucket list?
    Rob Haught and Tom Givens are critical stops on the Shotgun Hajj.

    Speaking of Tom, he's teaching shotgun in Culpeper, Va. in April:

    https://www.eventbrite.com/e/defensi...ts-39450606827


    Got any classes upcoming?
    As a matter of fact, I do:

    https://www.fpftraining.com/products...efense-shotgun
    https://www.fpftraining.com/products/shotgun-skills

    As a student I'll be in a class with Rob Haught sometime in 2018.

    Personal training -

    Are there any quintessential shotgun drills?

    Other drill suggestions? Reps?

    Suggestions for training at home?
    You can do a lot with shotguns using dryfire, so I try to focus range time on things I can't accomplish without the boom, primarily accuracy and recoil control.

    I will do relatively simple drills starting chamber empty as that's how I store my shotgun. I practice multiple shots on a single target (recoil control), shooting multiple targets, and shooting multiple shots on multiple targets. An example would be setting up two backers with two bullseyes on each. On the beep I'll shoot 1-3-2-4 and then 1-4-3-2, using emergency reloads as necessary to complete the drill. The ability to use multiple targets is extremely useful as you can work on transitions in live fire.

    Apart from stuff like that, you could use "Rolling Thunder" as that works just about everything you need to do with a shotgun.

    To me, the key things to practice for the average Joe are:

    - Getting the shotgun into action (chambering a round)
    - Making multiple accurate shots quickly (which can only be accomplished by using good fundamentals of shooting and recoil control)
    - Emergency reloads

    Hardware -

    What inert/dummy/training ammo has worked for you?
    Fiocci makes the best dummy rounds, IMO. I've tried just about everything to this point and so far I'm most pleased with them because the case head seems more durable than other dummy rounds I've used.

    The bottom line, though, is that dummies are consumables. Doesn't matter what you use, you will eventually break them. How long they last depends on how much you use them. It's usually the rim that goes, either being flattened (and made almost razor sharp in the process) but the leading edge of the shell can also become deformed and cause the dummy to get stuck in the mag tube or the chamber. AZooms seem like they would last longer but the rims on them get chewed up pretty quickly. Fiocci's dummies are cheap, effective, and readily available.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 12-11-2017 at 06:57 AM.
    3/15/2016

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DamonL View Post
    I really want to take a class with Rob Haught.

    I would have taken this class, but it was not even close to me.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Casa-Grande-AZ

    It was a phenomenal class. Rob is a truly excellent instructor. Everything he taught was backed up with his reasoning behind it, including any pertinent history. But there was never any "war stories" in class. It was all geared for explanation of specific stuff.

    One of the things I enjoyed the most was he gave a 25 round practice CoF that covered all the major components of shotgun work. Easy to do at practically any range, and quick to run through. It showed me how much thought he put into his teaching, as well as how much experience he actually has in teaching this material to people.

    I am looking for any more chances to train with him.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

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