Let's Talk Shotgun Training

[Tom Givens]

Did we all stop reloading in the 'work space' while I was sleeping?

Fumbling around with the gun on target seems counterproductive to me.

"gun on target" is not really an accurate assessment of what we did. If empty, gun stays on the shoulder and we get a round into the chamber with the support hand, quickly. No one advocated fumbling around with the gun.

[jellydonut]

"gun on target" is not really an accurate assessment of what we did. If empty, gun stays on the shoulder and we get a round into the chamber with the support hand, quickly. No one advocated fumbling around with the gun.

Aha, I'm with you. Yeah I can see the logic of getting one in the chamber quickly without breaking the gun down. I take it you break the gun down to feed the tube?

[03RN]

Did we all stop reloading in the 'work space' while I was sleeping?

Fumbling around with the gun on target seems counterproductive to me.

Taking the gun off target seems counter productive to me.

Remember, this isn't a rifle where you load 1 magazine and go. If your shotgun is empty it takes a lot more time to get it fully loaded. Having the muzzle pointed towards any potential threat will help if another round is needed.

[GJM]

Taking the gun off target seems counter productive to me.

Remember, this isn't a rifle where you load 1 magazine and go. If your shotgun is empty it takes a lot more time to get it fully loaded. Having the muzzle pointed towards any potential threat will help if another round is needed.

I recognize that Internet communication sometimes can be awkward, but I’m reading this as if you are advocating muzzling potential targets while not in the actual process of shooting. I like a muzzle depressed position, because it allows me to see the whole field in front of me, and does not violate rule two, which I consider to be the single most important safety rule.

[03RN]

Aha, I'm with you. Yeah I can see the logic of getting one in the chamber quickly without breaking the gun down. I take it you break the gun down to feed the tube?

I know Mr. Givens says no one is advocating fumbling with the shotgun but it is a shotgun. It's always being fumbled with whether it's being advocated for or not lol.


Especially after working 3rd shift in a psych ward then going to shoot on no sleep.

[03RN]

I recognize that Internet communication sometimes can be awkward, but I’m reading this as if you are advocating muzzling potential targets while not in the actual process of shooting. I like a muzzle depressed position, because it allows me to see the whole field in front of me, and does not violate rule two, which I consider to be the single most important safety rule.

You are only reloading a shotgun because you just shot bad guys. I am still aiming in their general direction untill I am sure they are dead bad guys. I want to make sure if one of them moves while I am reloading I can shoot again immediately.

[jellydonut]

Taking the gun off target seems counter productive to me.

Remember, this isn't a rifle where you load 1 magazine and go. If your shotgun is empty it takes a lot more time to get it fully loaded. Having the muzzle pointed towards any potential threat will help if another round is needed.

Maybe it's just because I have a weak upper body but loading the chamber through the ejection port is about 99% more likely to become a slow fumble or a lost shell if i keep the gun up. I also don't see much use in keeping an empty gun up on target when it makes my reload slower.

I can see the rationale for keeping it up if you still have ammo left (or, if it was empty, once you've got the chamber up and running) and you're feeding the tube on a partially loaded gun, although even there I don't seem to be much slower on target going from the tucked loading position to firing position. There is definitely a delay in there, though.

[TCinVA]

Aha, I'm with you. Yeah I can see the logic of getting one in the chamber quickly without breaking the gun down. I take it you break the gun down to feed the tube?

Not if you don't need to. I can top off the tube with the gun still tucked into my shoulder ready to fire if I need to.

Tube-loading a shotgun is not something we do in a hurry. Emergency loading/port loading is the thing we do in a hurry.

Some people lack the upper body strength necessary to hold the gun up like that to load it from the tube, so for those people I say it's perfectly fine for them to take the gun from the shoulder to the high ready position to load it if they need to do so.

Maybe it's just because I have a weak upper body but loading the chamber through the ejection port is about 99% more likely to become a slow fumble or a lost shell if i keep the gun up. I also don't see much use in keeping an empty gun up on target when it makes my reload slower.

I can see the rationale for keeping it up if you still have ammo left (or, if it was empty, once you've got the chamber up and running) and you're feeding the tube on a partially loaded gun, although even there I don't seem to be much slower on target going from the tucked loading position to firing position. There is definitely a delay in there, though.

IF, it makes your reload slower. For me...and for most...it doesn't. When I load from my side saddle I can just move my left hand to get the shell, get it into the ejection port, and close the action while never taking my sights off target. I can accomplish this more quickly than I can dismount the gun, perform the same manipulation, and remount the gun. If the gun is so heavy you need to support it by dismounting the gun to successfully reload efficiently, then do what you must do to get the gun back into action. What is efficient practice for me may not be the most efficient practice for you...so do what you must.

But I definitely gain by not having to re-mount the gun when I conclude the manipulation.

This is considerably different than a pistol reload which is far less efficient to try and perform while the pistol is hanging out there in space instead of back in my work space. Of course, I don't have the option of loading a single round into the chamber of my pistol or my AR-15 either...so efficiency is very different on those guns than it is on the repeating shotgun.

[Tom Givens]

What Tim said.

[Dagga Boy]

I don't listen/watch much P&S these days, but this was a good recent episode strictly about shotguns. It's over 3 hours and took me a few nights to get through it, but lots of good insight and opinions from Rob Haught and others.

A lot of high praise for the 1301 and Adam's products for it.

Watched it today. Would have been nice to have had some representation from some folks who did train and use the gun a lot on the LE side to balance stuff out with operational experience. A lot of generalizations about LE training that painted with a very wide brush. Again, stuff can be very regional. Rob actually wrote a letter to our Chief after the first time he had my guys in a class and saw that some cops can actually run the crap out of the gauge. There were a lot of places in my world that were highly proficient with the shotgun as a whole or at least had several folks at their agencies capable of running them well. It is those places and those people where progress is made.
Also......slugs. Sorry, but if you work in an automotive based world, you are doing yourself a huge disservice in not knowing how to effectively utilize the best tool we have for dealing with felons in vehicles.
As usual, some great stuff from Steve Fisher and Rob Haught. Rob did some cutting edge work on advancing shooting the shotgun. The combination of skills I got from SoCal experts on running and operating with the gun combined with Rob's advances in shooting the gun is what made the shotgun my primary go to for hunting felons.