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Thread: Let's Talk Shotgun Training

  1. #131
    I really like these for loading from, and easily carrying a reasonable number of extra rounds:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...shells-polymer
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #132
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I took a class with Dagga Boy this summer, and he demonstrated a loading method with the brass up that will work for over the top, underneath, and speed loading. I'll try to shoot a video clip of it.
    That method of addressing brass-up shells is the best I've found in terms of retaining control of the shell.
    3/15/2016

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Generalizations usually do.

    Simple truth of the matter is that shotgun training in aggregate in LE is minimal at best. (In several departments I can name, it is outright non-existent) There are certainly pockets of competence and even excellence which is why I made specific reference to organizations like the ones in SOCAL who have done a lot of gunfighting taking shotgun training and deployment seriously. USBP has also taken the pains to maintain excellent shotgun training over the years and USBP guys I've talked to are big fans of what the weapon can do.

    Organizations that shoot a lot of people with pistols pretty quickly figure out that pistols suck.



    I mentioned that, too. Of course, most police departments are not running guns set up to really use slugs to their full potential and the departments that never really invested the time and effort into figuring out what the shotgun can really do for them are likely to be using soft lead foster slugs (that likely haven't really been tested thoroughly in each issued shotgun) which give somewhat less than optimal performance in and around vehicles compared with the performance of some of the better slugs for the task like Brenneke or Federal's recent TruBall deep penetrator slugs.
    I thought you did a great job on presenting what you know, which is citizen defensive use. Stuff was covered by everyone, but I found what was missing was the high level actual operational use and training when done right and an emphasis on what is wrong. It would be like talking about citizen home defense use without anyone there who has both lived and poured their training regimens into that and everyone just saying citizens are all jacked up on how they do it and don’t train....which is mostly true, but what we are trying to change.
    My slug opinion comes from doing hundreds of select slug transitions in the field, under stress with live people involved, and actually fired two after the transition to them from buckshot. I am not unique in my old area, but what is getting unique is that many of us are retiring and so is the knowledge. These podcasts and other means are a way to keep that stuff in play and build new expertise. Trust me, based on extensive conversations with USBP, their shotgun program is a shadow of what it once was. That is a mirror of the entire country. As stated, we have made huge strides forward on the guns and ammo. What is missing is operational correct experience based training stuff.
    I didn’t find the podcast wrong, just lacking on the how to fix things on the LE side.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  4. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I really like these for loading from, and easily carrying a reasonable number of extra rounds:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...shells-polymer

    I have one of those for use in classes to have more ammo readily available, and I have a dedicated shotgun belt, but I strongly prefer having ammo on the gun itself.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  5. #135
    Another training niche is use of the shotgun for protection against bears and other four legged predators. Leaving aside LE, hunting and 3 gun, my guess is the shotgun is rarely deployed by civilians off a square range environment. In AK, there are many people carrying a shotgun with slugs daily, and they may have to use that shotgun to save their lives against a incredibly capable adversary. Besides some parts of the Gunsite Backcountry course, I haven’t seen much training that is geared to that use.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I have one of those for use in classes to have more ammo readily available, and I have a dedicated shotgun belt, but I strongly prefer having ammo on the gun itself.
    I like to store ammo on the shotgun, but get it on my person when deploying the shotgun, as I have lost way too many slugs and centerfire cartridges in alders and willows, traversing Alaska.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    That method of addressing brass-up shells is the best I've found in terms of retaining control of the shell.
    Perfect example of my points. So, below is a picture from working crime suppression mid 90’s. Look at how my side saddle is set up on a department gun I put my own side saddle on and light. Sort of state of the art accepted practice at the time. LAPD Metro learned about the negatives of hulls down set up on the side saddles during extended action with shotguns during the LA riots and a long shootout in Nickerson Gardens. They came up with the most efficient hull up loading procedures, and I got it from them and changed the way we did reloads (which is why I call it a Metro load). Again, we learn a lot when we field test stuff. Solid TTPs are developed from stuff we use in the square range, but test in the field under real world stress.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 12-19-2017 at 02:06 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  8. #138
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    I need this Metro load in my life.

  9. #139
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    I need this Metro load in my life.
    It works.

  10. #140
    Metro load @ 3:35?

    Last edited by 167; 12-20-2017 at 11:17 AM.

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