Major DeltaPont Pro problem

[GJM]

On that note some of the positions this match placed me in , showed me weaknesses in my red dot interface, that I haven't seen in more straight up matches and definitely not in running drills. One thing shooting it properly set up. Completely another when I'm bending around a barricade on one foot.

Isn't it interesting how shooting someone else's problem in a match, or even a course, shows up technique or equipment imperfections that have gone unnoticed in your own practice. Same with actual big game hunting as opposed to practicing for hunting. No doubt, SeanM would have many examples of crap rearing its ugly head when people are shooting back at you.

Our USPSA and club matches are very dynamic with a lot of awkward shooting positions designed into the stages.
I've seen guys who can smoke a Classifier or steel challenge stage with a Carry Optics pistol get slowed way down as they get further and further away from "stand and deliver" shooting.
Thing is, how far away from "stand and deliver" is the typical defensive gun use? Probably not very far.
Fact is the typical defensive gun use problem could probably be solved by most high volume shooters using a index draw sans hard sight focus, and outside of index draw range the extra 1/2 second hunting the dot won't make any difference at all.
I'm guessing a shooter like GJM could make consistent 20Y 8" plate hits by using a combination of index and looking through the MRDS window, no dot required.

Partially this is technique. I don't have BUIS on either the Q5 or Glock MOS pistols that I shoot in USPSA. Other than the DP Pro turning off, I have not had many issues finding the dot, although I try to frame the target using the whole lens of the DP Pro, and that brings the dot to me reliably. For EDC, BUIS or a laser would be better yet, then relying solely on technique.

I have tried to shoot with the dot off, and the DP Pro lens is so wide, the results are abysmal -- so I would bet against hitting the eight inch steel at 20 yards using solely index. Even if fleeting, I really do need to see the a bit of the dot, and do with draws down into the low .50's.

GJM: respectfully, do you have any thoughts/opinions on visible lasers mounted on handguns fro shooters with vision issues?
Thanks in advance

I wish there was a reliable, unobtrusive, easy (but not too easy) to activate green laser for every pistol I have. When I tore a retina four years or so ago, my right eye was unusable for a few weeks, and a laser allows either eye to work. Shooting field courses at night with a green laser feels like cheating.

[GJM]

I was at a match this weekend, shooting a 34 MOS with a DP Pro. I left the dot turned on for the day. About halfway through the match, I noticed the dot was off as I walked around, and when I drew the pistol to make ready, the dot did not come back on until I vigorously shook it. Later it went off again, and by wrapping the frame of the optic, it would come back on. I mentioned this to another competitor, with the comment that this might be unacceptable on an EDC pistol, and he said in an EDC or military situation (I understand the military 320 model has the DP Pro footprint) you would draw aggressively, smacking the gun in your holster as you gripped it, bringing the dot back on. I was not sure whether he was serious.

During stage six, I lost the dot a few times. When done, at the safety table, the dot was intermittent. I changed to a new Duracell 2032 battery, replacing the Energizer that was still in this optic. Same thing, intermittent dot, followed by no dot, except occasionally when you pressed the trigger, releasing the striker, the dot would glimmer briefly. So basically this unit is dead, and will need to go back to Leupold. This makes 4/4 DP Pro units that have failed in the last month or so.

I am seriously discouraged with the Pro, and plan to try to make a C-More RTS2 work for Carry Optics.

[ranger]

I will again say that "racing improves the breed". I remember many of the same type comments when frame mounted dots starting showing up in USPSA. (I met Dave Dawson at a ST Augustine FL USPSA match to get his frame mounted optic mount that held a TASCO PDP3 that was the "hotness" of that moment on a single stack 38 super 1911 comp gun back when he was a local competitor and starting his gunsmithing). We saw the same issues of finding the dot in awkward positions and there was a cottage industry to make scope mounts and to make that generation of Tasco Propoints and Aimponts "survivable". There were plenty of stories of shooters carrying backup tube RDS - one on the pistol, one in the range bag, and one at the factory for warranty. The supply and demand of the USPSA Open competition dramatically improved the reliability of the RDS. I am confident that the new demand for the slide mounted RDS will improve the Carry Optics and thereby improve the RDS for "carry" and "duty".

[MGW]

Is it a battery issue or an electronics issue? I’ve beat the hell out of M68’s and never had an issue. I guess I don’t understand why this doesn’t transfer to the smaller red dots.

As an aside, I understand how to use an ACOG but I don’t completely understand how it’s built. Can this same design style be transferred to a micro version? A fiber tube to create the dot during day time and a tritium dot for night use. Or will this design not work in a non-magnified non-tube style optic?

[GJM]

Is it a battery issue or an electronics issue?

Yes

[HCM]

Is it a battery issue or an electronics issue? I’ve beat the hell out of M68’s and never had an issue. I guess I don’t understand why this doesn’t transfer to the smaller red dots.

As an aside, I understand how to use an ACOG but I don’t completely understand how it’s built. Can this same design style be transferred to a micro version? A fiber tube to create the dot during day time and a tritium dot for night use. Or will this design not work in a non-magnified non-tube style optic?

I’m guessing you didn’t run that M68 on the slide of a pistol. Knocking around an RDS on a long gun does not compare to the stress and G forces placed on the internal electronics an RDS is subjected to by being mounted on a reciprocating slide.

Trijicon has made a dual illumination version of the RMR for years. The miniaturization of the Fiber / tritium system amplifies the weakness’ of the system. It is too bright in bright sun light and all but useless in transitional lighting or when using white light.

[That Guy]

As an aside, I understand how to use an ACOG but I don’t completely understand how it’s built. Can this same design style be transferred to a micro version? A fiber tube to create the dot during day time and a tritium dot for night use. Or will this design not work in a non-magnified non-tube style optic?

Well, there is a fiber optic RMR... But it does not appear to be very popular.

[MGW]

I’m guessing you didn’t run that M68 on the slide of a pistol. Knocking around an RDS on a long gun does not compare to the stress and G forces placed on the internal electronics an RDS is subjected to by being mounted on a reciprocating slide.

Trijicon has made a dual illumination version of the RMR for years. The miniaturization of the Fiber / tritium system amplifies the weakness’ of the system. It is too bright in bright sun light and all but useless in transitional lighting or when using white light.

Good points on the M68.

I had no idea the dual illumination version existed. Quick review of YouTube shows that it works fine in bright light and fine from a well lit room into a darker room. From a darker room into a lighter room it is a no go. Not enough light from the tritium.

Makes me wonder if this sight with co-witnessed tritium iron sights might be the best option. Almost guaranteed to work during the day time. Night time either the dot would be there or the tritium in the sights would be there. I have very little experience with red dots on handguns so I’m just thinking out loud.

It’s would definitely be a very expensive setup.

[Sigfan26]

Makes me wonder if this sight with co-witnessed tritium iron sights might be the best option. Almost guaranteed to work during the day time. Night time either the dot would be there or the tritium in the sights would be there. I have very little experience with red dots on handguns so I’m just thinking out loud.

I have a G26 milled with this setup. It works very well. I generally take it when checking a firearm while flying. As long as you understand it’s limitations, and have tritium BUIS, it works very well.


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[Erick Gelhaus]

Is it a battery issue or an electronics issue? I’ve beat the hell out of M68’s and never had an issue. I guess I don’t understand why this doesn’t transfer to the smaller red dots.

Different animals. I started using red dots on ARs back in '99 ... other than the first Aimpoint, a 5000, I haven't had any fail no matter what they've been exposed to. Yet, during the year I carried, worked with, shot a MRDS on a pistol I ended up a beta tester because I was breaking the internals that frequently.

On an AR, M$, etc the recoil is happening inside the gun, beneath the optic. With a pistol, absent or a Six Second or similar mojnt, the slide with the MRDS on is whats slamming back & forth. That seems to be why they are breaking like they do.

I think Trij tried one model with the fiber optic set up, it was not well received.

I'm venturing back into pistols / MRDS now. Spent time yesterday shooting both of mine. Didn't get the DPP out there though. Time wlll tell.