I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?
I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?
Formerly known as xpd54.
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As I remarked in another thread, my first (and really, only) time using a shotgun was the 3-gun match I shot in October. So I'm a complete shotgun newbie. And the whole time I was fumbling with it (not helped by it really needing to be broken in) I thought to myself "my God, this thing is a right pain in the ass". I used the pistol over the shotgun whenever I could because it was faster for me to reload. I could miss half the shots and do reloads from slide lock, and still finish faster than trying to feed those damned shells into the shotgun.
For someone like me who can barely scrape enough time together to practice semi-regularly with a pistol and runs the rifle stuff "cold" because, well, it's sorta kinda maybe close enough to pistols and I did a lot of rifle shooting years ago, dealing with the shotgun is a big "WTF mate?" I could feel my hairs turning gray while trying to reload, and watching the video it's even slower. It really made me sit there and think "why would anyone bother with the damned things if they didn't absolutely truly have to?"
A reliable box-magazine-fed shotgun would be a wonderful invention for people like me.
Last edited by gtae07; 12-06-2017 at 08:06 PM.
"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." - R. A. Heinlein
Shells are probably more likely to be damaged riding around in a cruiser muzzle up over time than in a box magazine.
A simpler manual of arms may well be worthwhile for many.We all use rifles and handguns that allow us to get a full reload in the gun with a minimum number of actions. Why would the ability to do so with a shotgun be less advantageous? As pointed out above, changing ammo types would seem to be simplified.
A deer hunter who finds that the deer are out farther than he thought they would be might find it easier to eject the shell in his chamber, remove the magazine, and put in a new magazine with slugs.
A police officer who arrives on scene and recognizes a need for slugs would certainly find it easier to put in a slug magazine as they are getting the gun into action.
My primary use for a shotgun, though, is home defense. In that role I don't have a real need to change ammunition types. I don't even keep slugs in the ammunition carriers on my defensive guns.
There are certainly some advantages to a box magazine design that are worth serious consideration for someone who needs/wants to use a shotgun...but those advantages come with costs.
I also wonder about common practice...how many people (police or defense minded citizen) are going to keep a spare magazine handy for that quicker capacity reload? The shotgun has typically been a grab-and-go weapon and best advice has been to keep extra ammunition attached to the gun so it goes where you go in case you need it. Given the size and bulk of shotgun magazines, how many people are going to be grabbing that second magazine?
Personally if I were handed one of these tomorrow I'd immediately velcro a Vang Comp side saddle to it and I'd just rely on port loading if I have exhausted the ammunition supply in the magazine. That's a hell of a lot easier to accomplish than finding a way to accommodate a second magazine for this weapon.
I think that's the primary practical benefit this offers in the context of defensive use of the shotgun. It makes the weapon simpler for folks who have not yet invested the time and effort into learning the quirks and peculiarities of running the shotgun.
And I'm cool with that. I don't expect everyone else on the planet to spend as much time working with dummy rounds as I have to figure out how to use the shotgun.
In the old days, everybody grew up using a shotgun. Even the city mice would go out and bust clays from time to time. Today the number of people looking to defend themselves who have practical experience with the shotgun is pretty small. Those people may well find that the mag-fed repeating claymore is a much more approachable tool for their purposes.
Last edited by TCinVA; 12-07-2017 at 07:45 AM.
3/15/2016
Many members here have posted their shotgun fight experiences. I only recall one guy saying he did a select slug in a fight, and I don't think anyone needed more than two rounds to end the fight.
Reloads in competition are a thing, but remember there is no bolt hold open on a pump shotgun. You fire until you get a click, then reload. With an M2 or similar you keep jamming 2-4 rounds in the tube anytime you're not shooting. You would also start with 6-7 rounds in the 870 vs. a long tube with 8+.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
I will be watching for reports on how well this works.
I agree 100% for those trained to run a traditional pump shotgun, this might require a pretty radical rethinking of technique.
I also agree it probably impacts the handiness of the shotgun. I'm not concerned about having the weight further back but that long magazine hanging below might get awkward. I don't think the placement of the mag release would bother me.
If it works well, maybe techniques can/should be updated.
"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." - R. A. Heinlein