870 detachable mag

[olstyn]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

[Lon]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

Saigas can be finicky with different ammo. So can Vepr’s and MKA1919’s. Semi’s won’t run specialty rounds like bean bags.

[gtae07]

After kicking this around a bit with others it looks to me like the primary *practical* benefit would be creating a simplified manual of arms for the shotgun. If I'm charged with getting a bunch of police officers competent with the shotgun with minimal time, I can teach them to run the gun essentially like a big MP5...on empty open action, strip magazine, insert new magazine, close action and go to work. Of course, how many agencies will be buying these things? I doubt many will be interested. I could be wrong.

The simpler manual of arms would be useful for shotgun newbies who are trying to use a shotgun for home defense. I don't have to explain how to remove shells from the tubular magazine using the shell stops...just pop the magazine out and clear the chamber and the weapon is good. To set up for defensive use drop the hammer on an empty chamber, insert magazine and now it's in home/closet/cruiser ready.

As I remarked in another thread, my first (and really, only) time using a shotgun was the 3-gun match I shot in October. So I'm a complete shotgun newbie. And the whole time I was fumbling with it (not helped by it really needing to be broken in) I thought to myself "my God, this thing is a right pain in the ass". I used the pistol over the shotgun whenever I could because it was faster for me to reload. I could miss half the shots and do reloads from slide lock, and still finish faster than trying to feed those damned shells into the shotgun.

For someone like me who can barely scrape enough time together to practice semi-regularly with a pistol and runs the rifle stuff "cold" because, well, it's sorta kinda maybe close enough to pistols and I did a lot of rifle shooting years ago, dealing with the shotgun is a big "WTF mate?" I could feel my hairs turning gray while trying to reload, and watching the video it's even slower. It really made me sit there and think "why would anyone bother with the damned things if they didn't absolutely truly have to?"

A reliable box-magazine-fed shotgun would be a wonderful invention for people like me.

[Lester Polfus]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

I feel compelled to point out that the Saiga is made by godless communists.

[TCinVA]

Shotguns are the type of gun with which I have the least training and experience, so I could be wrong, but isn’t the biggest problem with a detachable box magazine fed shotgun the fact that the shells can potentially get slightly crushed or otherwise damaged in the magazine?

Shells are probably more likely to be damaged riding around in a cruiser muzzle up over time than in a box magazine.

We all use rifles and handguns that allow us to get a full reload in the gun with a minimum number of actions. Why would the ability to do so with a shotgun be less advantageous? As pointed out above, changing ammo types would seem to be simplified.

A simpler manual of arms may well be worthwhile for many.

A deer hunter who finds that the deer are out farther than he thought they would be might find it easier to eject the shell in his chamber, remove the magazine, and put in a new magazine with slugs.

A police officer who arrives on scene and recognizes a need for slugs would certainly find it easier to put in a slug magazine as they are getting the gun into action.

My primary use for a shotgun, though, is home defense. In that role I don't have a real need to change ammunition types. I don't even keep slugs in the ammunition carriers on my defensive guns.

There are certainly some advantages to a box magazine design that are worth serious consideration for someone who needs/wants to use a shotgun...but those advantages come with costs.

I also wonder about common practice...how many people (police or defense minded citizen) are going to keep a spare magazine handy for that quicker capacity reload? The shotgun has typically been a grab-and-go weapon and best advice has been to keep extra ammunition attached to the gun so it goes where you go in case you need it. Given the size and bulk of shotgun magazines, how many people are going to be grabbing that second magazine?

Personally if I were handed one of these tomorrow I'd immediately velcro a Vang Comp side saddle to it and I'd just rely on port loading if I have exhausted the ammunition supply in the magazine. That's a hell of a lot easier to accomplish than finding a way to accommodate a second magazine for this weapon.

A reliable box-magazine-fed shotgun would be a wonderful invention for people like me.

I think that's the primary practical benefit this offers in the context of defensive use of the shotgun. It makes the weapon simpler for folks who have not yet invested the time and effort into learning the quirks and peculiarities of running the shotgun.

And I'm cool with that. I don't expect everyone else on the planet to spend as much time working with dummy rounds as I have to figure out how to use the shotgun.

In the old days, everybody grew up using a shotgun. Even the city mice would go out and bust clays from time to time. Today the number of people looking to defend themselves who have practical experience with the shotgun is pretty small. Those people may well find that the mag-fed repeating claymore is a much more approachable tool for their purposes.

[Hambo]

Many members here have posted their shotgun fight experiences. I only recall one guy saying he did a select slug in a fight, and I don't think anyone needed more than two rounds to end the fight.

Reloads in competition are a thing, but remember there is no bolt hold open on a pump shotgun. You fire until you get a click, then reload. With an M2 or similar you keep jamming 2-4 rounds in the tube anytime you're not shooting. You would also start with 6-7 rounds in the 870 vs. a long tube with 8+.

[Edster]

I will be watching for reports on how well this works.

I agree 100% for those trained to run a traditional pump shotgun, this might require a pretty radical rethinking of technique.

I also agree it probably impacts the handiness of the shotgun. I'm not concerned about having the weight further back but that long magazine hanging below might get awkward. I don't think the placement of the mag release would bother me.

If it works well, maybe techniques can/should be updated.

[gtae07]

I think that's the primary practical benefit this offers in the context of defensive use of the shotgun. It makes the weapon simpler for folks who have not yet invested the time and effort into learning the quirks and peculiarities of running the shotgun.

And I'm cool with that. I don't expect everyone else on the planet to spend as much time working with dummy rounds as I have to figure out how to use the shotgun.

In the old days, everybody grew up using a shotgun. Even the city mice would go out and bust clays from time to time. Today the number of people looking to defend themselves who have practical experience with the shotgun is pretty small. Those people may well find that the mag-fed repeating claymore is a much more approachable tool for their purposes.

I'm under the impression that quite a lot of people now use some kind of rifle (i.e. AR-15 variant) as their go-to long gun for defensive purposes, rather than a shotgun. I know that would be the case for me if I had the funding to set a dedicated rifle up how I'd like.