Lessons from 12,000 gunfights

[Sherman A. House DDS]

About the only thing I'd disagree with is the usefulness of pepper spray in defensive scenarios. OC/CS is for non-compliance, not for assaults.

A non-compliance tool for use by regular folks?


civiliandefender.com

[Jason M]

I would think so. Given the proper context, a potential attacker ignores and fails to comply with the "Get away from me, leave me alone!" command. They have earned a face full of OC before they get to the hands on part. That would be based on PA laws for use of force. Other locales may be different.

[DAB]

On a parallel note, I accessed Mr. Rehn’s site, and noted he has an evaluation/test(drill?) around “minimum standards” put forth by Ed Head of GUNSITE fame, and a retired BP Agent. Concealed carry standards, relevant to the data from the conference. 3 to 10 yards, a couple of main hand strings, some with two targets, all from concealment. I tried it, and was gratified to clean it.
FWIW, honestly working an evaluation like this seems advisable and instructive.
I thank Mr. Givens for calling attention to it and Mr. Head and Mr. Rehn for their work.

link to course of fire used?

[Zincwarrior]

About the only thing I'd disagree with is the usefulness of pepper spray in defensive scenarios. OC/CS is for non-compliance, not for assaults.

Its good for animals though.

Additionally I had a situation with a guy (while I was walking the doggies) who's dogs were loose. Our mountain dog (on a leash) was surrounded and I saw his reaction go into a attack mode (which means those dogs were about to die) I started yelling at him to get his dogs and the guy bowed up at me, out came the spray before I even thought about it and he stopped in his tracks (police later were on my side).

[1Rangemaster]

@DAB: if you go to Krtraining.com, and use the search button-“Ed Head”, takes you to the blog post.
Also has other interesting drills and tips.

[EMC]

Very interesting. I like it when data brings out some reality checks.

[DAB]

@DAB: if you go to Krtraining.com, and use the search button-“Ed Head”, takes you to the blog post.
Also has other interesting drills and tips.

found it. thanks.

http://blog.krtraining.com/minimum-s...ractice-drill/

[Duelist]

About the only thing I'd disagree with is the usefulness of pepper spray in defensive scenarios. OC/CS is for non-compliance, not for assaults.

As taught by Cecil Burch et al, in defense against assaults, OC is a non-contact poke in the eye. It may or may not incapacitate, but it should give you time and opportunity to increase distance.

Run away! Run away!

As I cannot carry a firearm in my office building, I do carry OC and a flashlight. And my 18yo son with his public contact minimum wage job, and my school teacher wife, also carry OC and a flashlight. And my anti-gun nurse sister as well (her husband is one who should not have a gun in the house - I have already removed one for them).

Nothing is really absolute.

[Hambo]

I don't think there is a down side to carrying OC. It does show that a CCW holder at least thought about less lethal.

Backup guns. I'm sure they aren't being used when a gun malfunctions, but I still believe a second gun is a good idea if you can access it when access to your other is limited in some way.

[David S.]

About the only thing I'd disagree with is the usefulness of pepper spray in defensive scenarios. OC/CS is for non-compliance, not for assaults.

I had to read it a few times and noodle it over. I think we're misreading his post.

BBI is not saying that pepper spray is useless in defensive scenarios. I think he's saying that pepper spray is useful in the MUC (as Southnarc would call it) phase of a defensive conflict. . . and that's what it's designed for. Once the conflict goes hands-on (assault), pepper spray looses it's usefulness.