Lessons from 12,000 gunfights

[CS Tactical]

Oh man, I'm going to have a lot to read tonight...

[Zincwarrior]

The average woman has a LOT more leeway when it comes to skipping less lethal and going straight to deadly force (or threatening deadly force).
In my opinion a woman needs MUC skills, a "get the fuck off me weapon" and a gun.
The "get the fuck off me weapon" is by far the most important.
A criminal will most likely try to size up a healthy adult male before attacking, hence MUC skills and LL options are good to have. The dance will often start just outside of hands on range until they know they can take you.
A criminal is more likely to just straight out ambush attack a female, making a clinch pick or other pokey-stabby that's readily accessible a must because an adult male criminal will be much more comfortable closing range on a female.

Good thoughts. Wife has such and instinctive punch reaction. Daughter not legal for CC in Texas yet agewise so just pepper spray and ability to run like a gazelle.

[nalesq]

Good thoughts. Wife has such and instinctive punch reaction. Daughter not legal for CC in Texas yet agewise so just pepper spray and ability to run like a gazelle.

If spray and run like a gazelle is going to be the strategy, she should practice doing exactly that. Besides the “spray and stare expectantly,” I’ve seen people spray and actually close distance with the person they are spraying.


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[1Rangemaster]

In practice, it's not worked well. Distances are too close, deployment too slow, effects to unreliable, and very few practice. They end up with a fight on their hands and getting the same effects themselves.

Things can change a bit with a barrier, like a tall counter, but I'm not impressed with the track record of OC among the general population.

Looking at the first paragraph, one could say that about handguns also; don’t work very well, slow to deploy, people don’t practice, etc.
I respect BBIs experience. Avoidance seems indicated, but sometimes the trouble comes to you.
Briefly, with that in mind, tried Mr. Rehns “3 seconds” eval again, with 98 point result again(this time, twitch w/the support hand). I am curious as to how many CCW license holders would do...

[Zincwarrior]

Looking at the first paragraph, one could say that about handguns also; don’t work very well, slow to deploy, people don’t practice, etc.
I respect BBIs experience. Avoidance seems indicated, but sometimes the trouble comes to you.
Briefly, with that in mind, tried Mr. Rehns “3 seconds” eval again, with 98 point result again(this time, twitch w/the support hand). I am curious as to how many CCW license holders would do...

Interesting that, competition isn't training, but a bunch of these are basic stuff for tactical competitions.

[JustOneGun]

When you sprayed as an officer, was it during an assault or the immediate leadup...or was it for non-compliance?

Are you carrying OC as part of your EDC?

As far as training not mattering, real world says otherwise. Simply knowing when it's appropriate to use and it's limitations would have saved some folks an ass whipping.

Sorry the internet ate my reply....

I carry OC on my key chain.

I don't think we are not too far apart on this subject.

I agree that many people think it is a magic button. But like any use of force a little training goes a long way. I can teach the finer points of OC over a cup of coffee. It's just not that hard.

I've used it during all aspects of the fight expect hands on. Including while being charged. The same sidestep that buys me time during fast bullets charging me allows me to gain and/or maintain distance for less than lethal. Action vs. Reaction. Is having a gun and OC somehow the end of training? Of course not. But with those two and a small amount of training, most of the a citizens situations are covered. It's certainly a viable option for them.

I agree with DB's basic ideas. Many of the videos including non-lethal don't show a wide spectrum of what's happening.

[Mr_White]

Ed Head's "Skills Check: Concealed-Carry Pistol Drill" that Karl Rehn wrote about on his blog is the Drill of the Week!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....y-Pistol-Drill

[jondoe297]

It was always a hand to hand assistor.....I can kick anyone's ass with their eyes closed. I found OC rarely stopped the folks I used it on, but it did often slow them down or give me an advantage at some point.

This is precisely how I teach OC to be used.

[JodyH]

It was always a hand to hand assistor.....I can kick anyone's ass with their eyes closed. I found OC rarely stopped the folks I used it on, but it did often slow them down or give me an advantage at some point.

This is precisely how I teach OC to be used.

This right here illustrates a big problem with OC marketing and a lot of OC training.
Most people think of OC as an intermediate level of force in between verbal and physical, people who have actually use it early and often know that it's basically a physical force multiplier.
It's not something you deploy instead of going hands on, it's basically the first punch thrown.

[fatdog]

it's basically the first punch thrown.

I will always remember Southnarc's description of OC as "eye jab in a can"