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Thread: Lessons from 12,000 gunfights

  1. #81
    It seems that a lot of conclusions about this presentation are being drawn by those who weren't there. I wasn't there, and won't attempt to draw conclusions on the quality of the presentation.

    Showing what happens frequently in a recorded UOF encounter is valuable in it's own right. As far as I know, the presentation is not positioned in a way that states the things witnessed most in the videos are the best practices. I somehow doubt that's the case, and suspect the presentation was more about the things we can learn (good and bad) about UOF encounters.

    Hopefully I can attend it at some point, and learn more.

    -Cory
    Last edited by Cory; 12-13-2017 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #82
    I WAS at the presentation, and this thread got several pages ahead of me, and I lost track.

    But here’s my take on John’s presentation.

    https://civiliandefender.com/2017/12...ed-contrarian/


    civiliandefender.com

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman A. House DDS View Post
    I WAS at the presentation, and this thread got several pages ahead of me, and I lost track.

    But here’s my take on John’s presentation.

    https://civiliandefender.com/2017/12...ed-contrarian/


    civiliandefender.com
    Great write up on the things we can learn (and should focus on) from watching the videos.

    -Cory

  4. #84

    Pepper Spray

    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Sorry the internet ate my reply....

    I carry OC on my key chain.

    I don't think we are not too far apart on this subject.

    I agree that many people think it is a magic button. But like any use of force a little training goes a long way. I can teach the finer points of OC over a cup of coffee. It's just not that hard.

    I've used it during all aspects of the fight expect hands on. Including while being charged. The same sidestep that buys me time during fast bullets charging me allows me to gain and/or maintain distance for less than lethal. Action vs. Reaction. Is having a gun and OC somehow the end of training? Of course not. But with those two and a small amount of training, most of the a citizens situations are covered. It's certainly a viable option for them.

    I agree with DB's basic ideas. Many of the videos including non-lethal don't show a wide spectrum of what's happening.
    On pepper spray,
    I agree that it's not always effective, however given the right circumstances it can be useful. Sabre pepper spray is very strong. I worked in security in my youth and sprayed a lot of folks and got sprayed myself. This formula below hurts pretty good. I took a 2 second spray in a training class at about 15 feet and couldn't open my eyes for almost 40 minutes. It is listed in their Law Enforcement/ Corrections catalog. I am not certain if it's available to the general public. I spoke with several experinced LE training staff that felt it was some of the best spray they had seen to date.

    Another use: agressive dogs. Searching a vacant commercial building for transients and I encountered an aggressive dog. Spray worked to dissuade the dogs charge that otherwise would have resulted in it being shot.

    https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spra...oz-stream-mk-4


    P.S. It sprays upside down and leaves and orange dye on target for user reference if the face is being hit.

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