Pretty much, at 3 yards that pretty much removes the "accuracy" component from the equation. Which, if you're trying to cook the test to produce the result you want is exactly what I'd do. A much better example would be to try it at 3, 5, 7, and 10 yards, comparing both time AND points down for each string.
LOL. A bit? That was weapons-grade, lawyer quality pedantry at work.Originally Posted by agent-smith
Burkett is saying that the shooter who is having trigger freeze issues is probably gripping too hard with his strong hand. To maintain the same amount of total grip tension as before, he's advocating a stronger grip with the weak hand to allow the shooter to take away tension in the strong hand. My personal experience echoes this, as I experienced several cases of trigger freeze before I rebuilt my grip. Now I try to to break my grip panels with my weak hand and my strong hand is stuck in a very firm handshake. Works great, when I'm seeing properly I can call shots at warp speed (.16-.17 splits) - something I'd never be able to do one handed.
Here's my prediction: If they're good enough and push for speed, a number of shooters will experience trigger freeze trying to shoot a 3 yard Bill Drill single handed. Probably even on both strings.
Explain for me why distance from a target effects trigger finger stutter?
Our OP specifically questions whether this is a physical phenomenon, or if perhaps there was a mental, or psychological disturbance causing the "break in shot rhythm".
Seems to me we are getting very caught up in simply the physical manipulation of a lever without any consideration for accuracy. Having shot with the OP, and knowing the majority of this forum are concerned not only making noise, but actually hitting their intended target area/zone, discarding the desire for accurate shot placement as a very likely contributing factor does not provide the same feedback as if we take that aspect into account.
Can I physically manipulate the lever as fast with one hand as with two? Yes I can.
Can I hit my intended target as fast with one hand as fast as I can with two? At 3 yards, yes I can.
And probably at 5 yards.
And probably without sights installed.
And probably at 7 or even 10 yards, if the impact area is large enough.
But what about a low probability target?
When accuracy is thrown out the window, such as mashing the trigger as fast as I physically can without concern about accuracy, or without concerning myself with a hostage rescue shot, having a support hand is irrelevant. When shooting at a target that is less than 6' away, (which is closer to the actual distance when at the 3 yard line once the gun is pointed down range) is not much of a test of speed AND accuracy.
But if my goal is to manipulate the trigger quickly, and produce accurate hits downrange beyond bad breath range, I will produce a much higher level of speed and accuracy using two hands.
I certainly wasn't around when Cooper and the old Leather Slap crowd were throwing lead at Big Bear, but it seems to me that if these guys, who were trained in, and used the one handed pistol technique in combat found it lacking.......thus leading to the development of two handed shooting, and ultimately the current manifestations and variations of the "Modern Technique", they felt it was more efficient and effective than one handed shooting. Apparently, so does the majority of the modern shooting world.
If the support hand does nothing to improve my ability to put fast, accurate, and effective rounds on target.........why would I bother to ever use it?
Fact is, there are numerous reasons there could have been a time difference in the string of fire. Could be physical. Could be a true issue with the trigger finger "stuttering". Could have been too much tension in the shooting hand. But it could also have been psychological or mental. Could have been due to lack of sight picture. Failure to reset the trigger properly. Disconnect between brain and finger. The possibilities are nearly endless.
To address the concerns of the OP, if it was a one time event..........I wouldn't over-analyze it. If it continues to plague you, then have one of your shooting buddies take video AND standby to critique your string of fire. This is an issue that is not likely to be effectively addressed over the internet.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
The only times I've experienced trigger freeze were when the targets were close up (like inside 7 yards or so) and I was really pushing for speed, which at those distances involves pretty much trying to row the trigger as fast as possible. Couple that with too much tension in the strong hand and it's a recipe IME.
I'm beginning to question whether ANY issues can be effectively addressed over "the internet."
(As always, great post/info Sean M)
Those of you who attend the private Rogers class will have the opportunity to explore this in much more depth, both two handed and one handed.
When I give private lessons, if I need to demo, I use the student's gun. That way they don't think I'm using a tricked out SCCY to be able to shoot well.
By chance, my wife and I were watching the Bill Rogers Panteao video tonight, and it looks like Bill has quite a bit of finger in the trigger guard of both the M&P and revolver. I have been trying to use less finger, after following Surf's thread on manipulating a Glock trigger, but more obviously works for Bill.
Is there a consensus on best practice and might this relate to trigger freeze?
Everyone's hands are shaped differently. What works for Rogers to be able to pull the trigger straight back may not work for you. Placing your finger on the trigger exactly like Rogers does hoping it makes you shoot better is a little like wearing Shaq's shoes hoping it makes you a better basketball player. Just like with the shoes a proper fit is pretty important, so place your finger where it fits you best (hint: get with an instructor who can help you determine a proper "fit" of your finger to the trigger).
Having been thru RSS twice in the last year, I have had pretty good luck mimicking most of what Bill does. Since he appears to be using more finger in the trigger guard than I am, I was curious whether I was missing something. I have been contacting the trigger so that I press straight back, and have a relaxed second joint. Within that range, which is from the middle of the first pad to almost the crease, I have some available range that feels good, allowing me to press straight back and gives me a relaxed second joint. I would be interested in the theory of more or less finger, within one's "good" range. Interestingly, when I pop the GFA back on, it seems to force me to use less finger and feels less satisfactory. I assume, but have never discussed, that finger placement is the same for freestyle as one hand shooting?
Last edited by GJM; 01-28-2012 at 02:27 AM.
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