AR15 pistol with arm brace for dealing with an active shooter inside a church

[SkippySanchez]

The next time someone wades in with a needlessly confrontational post, I’d appreciate it if folks would click the report post button instead of taking the bait. [emoji4]

@SkippySanchez, you’ve been a member here since day one and therefore you should know that the tone and content of your post isn’t what we expect from our members.

I do not need, or desire, anyone to respond to my post publicly. Anyone that “needs” to respond can do so via PM.

Let’s please get back on topic (and ignore Skippy’s outburst). If someone must make another non-contributing post, take it to FB or another forum. Thanks!

Yes, you and others are correct. My comment was unnecessary, confrontational and obtuse and I apologize.

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[Cookie Monster]

I feel like the small rifle is still limiting.

Why not a standard AR in a guitar case? Or 14.5 in barrel in a long Sneaky bag/tennis racket bag?

Would you want the dude with the rifle in the pews or in the entrance or the door to the nursery or on the bench outside?

Just asking questions, I got no answers.

[Duelist]

I feel like the small rifle is still limiting.

Why not a standard AR in a guitar case? Or 14.5 in barrel in a long Sneaky bag/tennis racket bag?

Would you want the dude with the rifle in the pews or in the entrance or the door to the nursery or on the bench outside?

Just asking questions, I got no answers.

Because they're trying to make it as low-profile, fits in at church, as possible. The tennis racket bag is a non-starter. The guitar case has some potential, if the church uses guitar music in services, but might be seen as odd for a guy to carry around the whole day instead of having with the worship band and then locking up with the rest of the instruments. People do carry bags at church, though: teaching Sunday school, carrying diapers, etc.

[HCM]

You guys have any LAW's with high round counts? I've read some reports of them loosening over time with just enough play to get some friction/rubbing problems that were affecting reliability.

So far I'm very pleased with the SB PDW Brace which is like the Maxim.

There were issues reported with the early models- the current Gen 3’s are good to go. I’m aware of at least one federal LE agency which has OK’ed the Gen 3 LAW folders on agency duty guns for low profile protection assignments.

[Malamute]

Would an accurate pistol or revolver with red dot and/or laser have potential for the task?

I tend to think in terms of revolvers for accuracy for some reason, like a 4" or 6" 357 with red dot. Would fit under a suit jacket OK in the right holster.

[SeriousStudent]

I feel like the small rifle is still limiting.

Why not a standard AR in a guitar case? Or 14.5 in barrel in a long Sneaky bag/tennis racket bag?

Would you want the dude with the rifle in the pews or in the entrance or the door to the nursery or on the bench outside?

Just asking questions, I got no answers.

Sitting in a chair next to the door leading to the nursery from the sanctuary. Next to the chair is a heavy wooden bookcase packed with choir books and hymnals.

Shooter placement is based on careful examination of sightlines and backstops, with a full understanding of Rule 4.

An in-depth reading of Dr Robert's ammo recommendations was also included.

[HCM]

Would an accurate pistol or revolver with red dot and/or laser have potential for the task?

I tend to think in terms of revolvers for accuracy for some reason, like a 4" or 6" 357 with red dot. Would fit under a suit jacket OK in the right holster.

It would not do anything an RDS high capacity pistol couldn’t do in equally skilled hands.

Lasers have niches like low light / NVG / ballistic Shield drivers and mininmally trained persons using handguns for self defense. For antrained shooter a laser would not offer any advantage in common church security scenarios.


AR pattern rifles are quite accurate and hit harder than handgun rounds.

Most church security teams will get minimal training, just like most LE, military and other security personnel.

My justification for an SBR or sigbrace pistol would be long guns are much easier to hit with quickly and under stress, particularly for those with minimal training.

[HCM]

I feel like the small rifle is still limiting.

Why not a standard AR in a guitar case? Or 14.5 in barrel in a long Sneaky bag/tennis racket bag?

Would you want the dude with the rifle in the pews or in the entrance or the door to the nursery or on the bench outside?

Just asking questions, I got no answers.

How is a small rifle limiting other than at extended ranges outside the scope of a church security context ?

Even in a so called mega church you would be hard pressed to make a shot beyond 100 yards. 15 to 25 or less are far more likely.

You have the additional points of contact of a rifle, making it easier to shoot accurately than a pistol from a human factors perspective. Shouldering a SIG brace makes the brace pistol just as shootable as a regular rifle or SBR at practical ranges of, say less than 100yards.

In 2017 an RDS is standard so sight radius is not an issue.

There is a reason most federal LE Agencies have transitioned to 11.5” AR’s as issued duty rifles.

My concern with small would be reliability. IME 10.3 is the absolute minimum barrel length for a 5.56 DI gun to run reliably. 11.5 and 12.5” Guns run significantly better. Shorter than that, look at 300 Blk, 9mm or a piston gun if you must have 5.56.

[masternave]

Throwing out https://shortbarrelshepherd.com/ for added reading for OP…*the guy has a lot of interesting thoughts about how to safely carry and employ a concealed short rifle/pistol.

[John Hearne]

If I were in such an environment, then running some sort of rapidly expanding lighter weight round, like a 55 grain softpoint, would be desirable. My only concern is whether an AR pistol would have enough barrel to reliably expand the round. Once you put a LAW folder on the gun, whether the barrel is 10" or 14.5" doesn't matter much concealment wise but that can be enough barrel to drive the bullet fast enough to expand as it needs to.