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Thread: Support Hand Still Slipping Forward

  1. #11
    Member randyflycaster's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for all your replies.

    Not sure what thumbs-up grip is.

    I will try Ernest's idea of using slight backward pressure with my support hand. The forward pressure I was using was forcing my hand to slip.

    Randy
    Last edited by randyflycaster; 11-26-2017 at 10:11 AM.

  2. #12
    I found Ernest's remarks about the support hand pre-load in a Weaver stance at 12:00 rather interesting.

  3. #13
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    I found Ernest's remarks about the support hand pre-load in a Weaver stance at 12:00 rather interesting.
    I caught that as well. I've always just kind of thought of it as isometric tension, with the strong and support hands and arms providing a counterbalancing force.

    There is so much nuance in the various techniques offered by many highly respected trainers. Ultimately I think we just have to find the one that both works and feels most comfortable for our particular body structure...and...is repeatable under stress.

  4. #14
    As someone who has obsessed over grip technique for a decade, I can somewhat empathize. Here have been my observations:

    The modern thumbs forward grip – in all of its variations – relies mostly on friction between the support hand and the gun and strong hand in order to be effective, barring a strong push/pull between the two hands. With this technique, it’s tough to overstate the fact that hand-size and fit to the gun have a large effect on how effective the technique will be. Shooters with fat, fleshy hands have little trouble mashing a lot of hand against the gun and rarely understand the trouble that those of us with bony hands have. There’s simply not a lot of meat available on the hand and thus there’s not a lot of surface area to press against the gun in order to supply enough friction to keep the hands together. Despite having a strong grip, this is a problem I have, and this is where I have to either adjust my grip technique to accommodate a gun OR use a platform with a fatter grip, whereby I have more grip surface available.

    The concepts of back-pressure, inward pressure, inward torque ala Vogel, etc all incorporate muscles other than those immediately responsible for gripping to increase the pressure the hands apply to the gun, thereby increasing the amount of friction. If you’re able to get enough support hand on the gun these are very effective techniques.

    Speaking of Vogel’s grip, it’s a concept that I’ve used quite a bit, combined with Ayoob’s wedge-grip. My grip for the longest time looked like this:




    With this technique, the index finger of my support hand was able to lock onto the trigger guard in order to really torque hard into the gun. Both my strong and support hands torque in – ala Vogel – and the higher grip offered by the wedge technique meant that my support hand had plenty of available space against which to press. Using a very strong grip, the gun was locked into place and shot very flat. The key again was a strong grip, as inadequate grip resulted in slippage, similar to what you’re probably experiencing.

    Unfortunately though, overtraining this grip has led to some serious tendonitis (golfer’s elbow) in my support forearm and that has forced me to use a more traditional grip again. It’s a little tougher to explain how I approach it now but the core concepts are the same – I apply my support hand higher on the frame where there’s more available space (I almost pinch the slide…I’m that high up) and I still require a small amount of inward torque to increase friction. Finally, I’ve given in to grip-tape, which for the longest time I avoided. Just a small amount up high on the support side makes all the difference in the world.

    PM if you’d like to discuss directly…

  5. #15
    Member randyflycaster's Avatar
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    Are you locking your elbows?

    Randy

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by randyflycaster View Post
    Not sure what thumbs-up grip is.
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    David S.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by randyflycaster View Post
    Are you locking your elbows?

    Randy
    Nope. In order to achieve an inward torque the elbows come up and out but they're not locked. I extend to the natural point where any further would result in the hands actually starting to come apart rather than maintaining inward pressure.

  8. #18
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    Your support hand isn't slipping forward. It's staying in place and your firing hand is moving away with recoil. If you're trying to stop your hand from slipping forward you'll never find a solution, because that's not what's happening.

    You can't out muscle recoil. You probably need to loosen up a little bit, and focus on technique and sight tracking.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  9. #19
    When is your support hand slipping? 2,3,6,11 rounds fired? How much is it moving? I think making micro adjustments (fixing your grip) during recoil may be one option to experiment with.

  10. #20
    Member randyflycaster's Avatar
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    My support hand is slipping after every round. Even if my strong hand is the hand that's moving, my support hand must stay on the gun. Instead of using the Shannon Smith technique of pushing my strong hand fingertips forward with my support hand, I am going to try to gently pull the gun back with my support hand.

    Randy

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