Support Hand Still Slipping Forward

[randyflycaster]

I tried using the Bob Vogel "torque" grip today, but my support hand still keeps slipping forward, making it impossible for me to keep grip pressure on the gun. I don't know why this keeps happening. I'm wondering if my hands are too small for my guns, a CZ 85 and a Glock 19. I put rubber grips on both guns, but it hasn't stopped the hand slipping.

Also, I try to use my strong hand fingertips as a wall - like Shannon Smith - that I push against with my support hand. Today I tried pushing with less pressure, but it didn't solve my problem.

Any thoughts?

Randy

[GJM]

Try a conventional grip.

[JohnO]

my support hand still keeps slipping forward, making it impossible for me to keep grip pressure on the gun. I don't know why this keeps happening. I'm wondering if my hands are too small for my guns, a CZ 85 and a Glock 19. I put rubber grips on both guns, but it hasn't stopped the hand slipping.

Any thoughts?

Believe it or not your logic on gun size is actually the opposite of reality. The larger the grip area the less your strong hand will wrap around leaving more area for your support hand to contact. I'm not suggesting you go out and purchase a bigger gun, just pointing out fact. I can get more support hand meat on my Glock 21 than I can get on a G17. There just is more open grip area.

The support hand does not contact as much grip area as the strong hand. Therefore grip enhancements have limited value for the support hand. Now look and see what the support hand primarily contacts. Yup your strong hand. So you are looking at increasing the coefficient of friction between your strong hand and your support hand while in a firing grip. Either more pressure (tighter grip) or some form of stickum.

Is the climate dry where you live? Heck you should just experiment by wetting your hands and see how that effects your grip.

I know people don't walk around with stickum applied to the back side of their support hand and the palm side of their support hand (the practicality of having this available outside of a dedicated range session - real life.) However for the purpose of learning what is happening or how you can potentially improve your problem some experimenting may prove to be enlightening.

[Jared]

Try a conventional grip.

Op, do this. Vogel's grip is pretty unconventional, and when I tried it myself I got less control than I got with a more conventional modern isosceles type arm/hand position.

[GJM]

The Vogel grip works great if two conditions are met:

1) you are shooting a Glock 34

2) you are as strong as Robert Vogel

This became quickly apparent to me when shooting a Glock 22 with his grip.

[Jared]

The Vogel grip works great if two conditions are met:

1) you are shooting a Glock 34

2) you are as strong as Robert Vogel

This became quickly apparent to me when shooting a Glock 22 with his grip.

I don't know how strong Vogel's grip is exactly, but I do know that when I tried his grip I could close a CoC #2 multiple times with either hand, so I wasn't a weakling and I still couldn't make it work all that well for me. It didn't suck, per se, but I did notice more flip, less predictable sight tracking and return, and a tendency for my support hand to slip. This was with a Glock and multiple 92 pistols.

[nightstalker865]

Take a look at Landgon’s grip instruction. I think he does an exceptional job at explaining the technique and making it easily repeatable for the shooter.

Grip info starts at the 6min mark. Well worth a few mins of your time.

https://youtu.be/5VP4X6FVa4E


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[David S.]

I’ve fought the same issue for years. The internet told me to fix the problem by squeezing harder and exaggerating the thumbs-forward grip more. Neither worked for me. Recently, I took a class with Tom Givens, who recommends a thumbs high grip for most people. Unpossible, I says to myself. That’s not how the HSLD dudes do it.... but, then again, you’re here to learn his way.

I’ve been shooting thumbs forward for too long, so I can’t seem to get myself to shoot thumbs high. Relaxing my support wrist from “locked out” forward to a more neutral, vertical position seems to be working well, so far.

ETA. Ernest’s video above is exactly the kind of technique I was referring to above. I’m not saying he’s wrong. I’m not questioning his expertise. He’s vastly more qualified than I am on the topic. That said, the “support hand as high as possible without impeding the function of the gun...and wrist pre-loaded” advice hasn’t worked well for me where I’m at.

[Caesar]

Check out Mike Seeklander’s Instagram. About 35 or so down from the most recent post, he has some good instructional videos on pistol grip.

I struggled with my support hand breaking from the grip. As he suggested in one of his videos, too much downward angle on the support hand can lead to this problem. I reduced the angle some and made sure to build pressure behind the gun by canting my palms into the gun. Worked for me.

[spinmove_]

I’ve found, through lots of personal experimentation, that it somewhat boils down to physiology AND the chosen firearm. You tried something different, which is great and awesome. But you discovered that it doesn’t quite work for you, which is perfectly ok. Now you have to try something different, work with it for a bit, and see if that works for you. If it doesn’t, rinse and repeat. Just keep in mind that if you also change the type of gun, your grip might very well be different. The grip I use on a Glock is different from what I use on a SIG, which is different yet from what I use on a revolver.

Don’t give up. Just keep trying. You’ll get it.


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