357 Sig question

[Spartan1980]

snipped...All things being equal (same effort of design, optimization, weight, sectional density, etc.), wouldn't we expect the higher energy bullet to be able to do SOMETHING better?

Yes. It's just that we don't know what that something is or how to measure it or quantify it's results.

[Ed L]

The suspect was shot multiple times center mass, with some of the bullets exiting the back. One round ricocheted off the suspects head without penetrating. I was sure the suspect was dead, but he actually lived....he’ll be miserable for the rest of his life though.

As much as I dislike the .357 Sig, I can't imagine anything to the specific round or a gold dot hollowpoint in that round that would make it bounce off his head--especially given the cutting edge of a hollowpoint. I imagine it would have to have hit at a weird glancing angle.

[Sigfan26]

As much as I dislike the .357 Sig, I can't imagine anything to the specific round or a gold dot hollowpoint in that round that would make it bounce off his head--especially given the cutting edge of a hollowpoint. I imagine it would have to have hit at a weird glancing angle.

A friend recounted a story of unloading a shell of magnum Buckshot on a suspect’s head... and the pellets, for lack of a better term, scalped the individual. Crazy shit.


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[HCM]

As much as I dislike the .357 Sig, I can't imagine anything to the specific round or a gold dot hollowpoint in that round that would make it bounce off his head--especially given the cutting edge of a hollowpoint. I imagine it would have to have hit at a weird glancing angle.

Bullets do funny things is more the rule than the exception.

[dpadams6]

As much as I dislike the .357 Sig, I can't imagine anything to the specific round or a gold dot hollowpoint in that round that would make it bounce off his head--especially given the cutting edge of a hollowpoint. I imagine it would have to have hit at a weird glancing angle.

Me either. One incident we had, the suspect was in a car, driving/fleeing, and was shot, where the round went, first, thru the driver side steel pillar at an extreme angle, thru the driver seat, thru the suspect and then lodged, rather deeply, into the dashboard. Very impressive.
So, bounce off of suspect head? Highly unlikely.

[DocGKR]

Bullets bounce of folks heads all the time. For one widely known example, recall Daniel Tice who got lucky when SWAT bounced a 9 mm from an MP5 of his head at close range:

[dpadams6]

Bullets bounce of folks heads all the time. For one widely known example, recall Daniel Tice who got lucky when SWAT bounced a 9 mm from an MP5 of his head at close range:

All the time? We'll disagree on that one. The head, would be the last place on my body, that I'd want to get hit at. Have you by chance seen what a bullet does when it hits a human skull? The vast majority that I've seen, did not bounce off of any head. Not to say that it can't happen, but, certainly not often.

[DocGKR]

Energy differences....really?

A whole 96 ft lbs--gee, maybe that small amount of extra energy is not really magic. Maybe that minimal difference simply causes a bit more tissue stretch or perhaps it pushes the bullet 1 or 2 more inches into tissue. Of course there were a lot of folks who were dismayed to find out that tissue destruction was not necessarily any more severe when .224" projectiles were fired into tissue at over 6000 fps, but hey, why get hung up on facts when magic properties are so much more interesting...

[DocGKR]

"Have you by chance seen what a bullet does when it hits a human skull?"

Gee--maybe once or twice...

[Brian T]

Many factors are involved in any shootings with all calibers. I wouldn't choose my caliber, based on one incident.
Has anyone heard of any Departments switching FROM 357sig? I'm sure that there are some, somewhere, but certainly not anywhere near the other calibers.

TXDPS last I checked.

Most Departments that carry 357sig are very happy with their choice, including the US SECRET SERVICE, who stated that the 357sig was the best handgun round that they have ever tested.

And how many OISs is the USSS involved in?

Of course they are going to say the .357sig is the best handgun round they ever tested, they adopted it. Do you honestly think they are going to say "Yeah we adopted it, but this shit sucks."? Of course I'm sure they also said the old Remington "green box" 115gr+P+ JHP was the best 9mm they ever tested after they adopted it.

Same round was issued to Dallas PD for a short time in the early 90's after repeated failures with the 115gr XTP. DPD then switched away from the Remington 9mm load, dubbed the "9mm Treasury Load", to the 147gr Winchester Ranger SXT and later the 147gr Winchester Ranger Talon. DPD used the 147gr Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon loads for almost 15 years. They switched away from the 147gr Ranger Talon only due to Winchester's shit QC/QA. They now use the 135gr+P Critical Duty (and TXDPS has followed suit). Note: DPD is one of the first major metro PD's in the US to have a lab dedicated to testing bullet performance. It started with water troughs in the early-to-mid 70's with the 158gr+P LSWCHP then known as the "FBI Load".

I also think it's funny how everyone could agree that the 357magnum is clearly better then the. 38, but think that 357sig is no different then a hot 9mm.

I dont think .357mag is clearly better than the .38, and I know for a fact that .357sig isnt better than 9mm. I prefer my M15-3 to my friend's M19-whatever. My anecdotes are; I've shot half a dozen feral hogs with both 53918 and 54234 and say a dozen with RA9T and RA9TA, and the results are simple, I do my part, they do theirs.