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Thread: Firearms and young children

  1. #21
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    I may have missed it, but has anyone brought up adding a level of retention to your carry rig? Until your kid gets older and phases out of the grabby stage, it might be a layer worth considering—more so than a platform change. Just throwing it out there.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    That's awesome. Any other models able to do the same? P30 or P2k?
    The USP full size, HK45 and HK45C.

    HK imported a small batch of P30L LEM with a manual safety but they bring scalper / collector prices. It is apparently possible to convert P30V3 to LEM but I don't know if that is true of the safety version. P30 LEM conversions are not supported or sanctioned by HK.

    There are no provisions for a manual safety on the P2000.

    Personally I prefer the USPC and USP to the Spider-Man grip guns.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The USP full size, HK45 and HK45C.

    HK imported a small batch of P30L LEM with a manual safety but they bring scalper / collector prices. It is apparently possible to convert P30V3 to LEM but I don't know if that is true of the safety version. P30 LEM conversions are not supported or sanctioned by HK.

    There are no provisions for a manual safety on the P2000.

    Personally I prefer the USPC and USP to the Spider-Man grip guns.
    I prefer the size of the USP personally. It just fits my hand better then anything else. Reason I’m thinking of converting to the lem is the safety lever it right in the way of my grip. But I’m just not sure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    @HCM Thanks for the clarification.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    I may have missed it, but has anyone brought up adding a level of retention to your carry rig? Until your kid gets older and phases out of the grabby stage, it might be a layer worth considering—more so than a platform change. Just throwing it out there.
    That was part of why I went with the SmartCarry for so long - my kids might put their hands in my pockets, or lift or shift my shirt, but reaching into my crotch wasn't something that happened with anybody but my wife. And she knew there was a gun in there.

    That complete coverage was as good as another layer of security on a holster. At least in my head. Does kind of limit you to a small gun, though.
    Last edited by Duelist; 11-24-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    DA/SA, manual safety, tell 'em to never touch, is a recipe for disaster. They WILL be able to make the gun fire, they WILL play with them if they find them when you're not around. As already stated, if they can't pull the trigger with their finger, they'll turn the pistol around and pull it with their thumbs.

    I have a 2yo boy and 9yo girl that are curious about everything. My 2yo has NEVER seen a gun fired in person, has never even seen me dry-fire a pistol. A few months before he turned two he was with me while I was working on a frame and I had an old stripped Glock 17K frame that has been used as a test mule for stippling and stuff like that. He immediately picked it up and started pointing it at things and making gun sounds. Kids know more than we think they do.

    I carry a Glock the same way I always have carried, either AIWB, or strongside IWB or OWB.

    With kids you have to be VIGILANT in remaining in 100% control of your guns 100% of the time. The only pistol not in the safe is on my body in a holster. When my pistol comes off at night, an AR comes out of the safe and is placed in my closet. When I wake up at 0530-0600, the AR comes out of the closet and goes to the safe where a Glock is put on for the day. My belts and holsters are kept in the closet where the safe is and that's where they stay when not on me. Carrying the AR to the safe is part of getting dressed as my belts and holsters are kept in the room with the safe. Taking the Glock off and putting it in the safe is part of getting undressed as I hang my belts next to the safe. I'm always looking for ways to improve the system.
    Being vigilant is the first step and educating them. My main question is are some platforms more safe then others? I know Nyeti said that he used to carry a very specific gun in schools because the risk of a kid getting to it.

  7. #27
    No. If you can use it, they can too. My average two year old can start cars, turn on and play with any electronic device, and is good with an iPhone. He can (ask me how I know) squeeze a ketchup packet hard enough to burst it. Pretty sure any two year old could find a way to pull a trigger.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    No. If you can use it, they can too. My average two year old can start cars, turn on and play with any electronic device, and is good with an iPhone. He can (ask me how I know) squeeze a ketchup packet hard enough to burst it. Pretty sure any two year old could find a way to pull a trigger.
    So you don’t believe something like a manual safety could buy you time? My concern isn’t my son finding my pistol lying around, if the gun isn’t on me it’s locked up. My concern is somehow it comes dislodged and he gets to t before me. I “feel” like a manual safety may give me more of chance to negate that risk. Agreed that kids will figure out to use any gun eventually. Hence why I keep my home defense carbine condition 3 with safety on. A lot of steps before that gun is ready to go

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    I may have missed it, but has anyone brought up adding a level of retention to your carry rig? Until your kid gets older and phases out of the grabby stage, it might be a layer worth considering—more so than a platform change. Just throwing it out there.
    I switched to a Safariland GLS holster after my p2000sk managed to come (slightly) out of a Comptac Infidel while rolling around on the couch with the kids.
    It's a bit bulky but I like it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    Being vigilant is the first step and educating them. My main question is are some platforms more safe then others? I know Nyeti said that he used to carry a very specific gun in schools because the risk of a kid getting to it.
    I might go back to a safety-on TDA like a 3913 or PX4C due to the kid getting hold of it and giving me a moment more to process and react, as opposed to the grandma whose toddler grandkid grabbed her striker fired gun from her purse and shot somebody just that quick. It's interesting that lots of people think the only gun a person should consider carrying is one that is that simple and easy to use - but when you throw munchkins into the mix, it doesn't seem like such a hot idea.

    My wife and kids don't like the heavy DA trigger, even on my slickest, smoothest TDA triggers. That's one big reason we've been experimenting with Glocks. My daughter actually likes my 642, but shoots a G42 better. So, which is better? Something easier to shoot well, or something more difficult to shoot?

    None of this is new. People complain about how hard some guns are to shoot well, and rave about other guns, and you have to weigh out what your priorities are, and do what you can to maximize effectiveness and safety with whatever you are using.

    IIRC, the small DAO S&W revolvers were the first to be deliberately designed to be harder to shoot, rather than easier to shoot accurately and quickly. One of the founders of S&W was distraught after a report came in of a small child killing himself with an S&W revolver his parents kept for protection. He spent the next year or two designing and building prototypes of small framed revolvers, changing trigger spring weight, pull length, geometry, etc, all in an effort to, when he would take the prototypes home, have something his own child would not be able to figure out a way to pull the trigger on. The heaviest DA trigger that was still shootable, combined with a backstrap safety, was the best he could do. And now we have the jframe as the culmination of that effort, and it's easy to carry and hard to shoot well and reload quickly, and only holds 5 rounds.

    And a kid might still do the thumbs trick and shoot himself.

    So my one friend only carries chamber empty. Breakingtime carries a gun with a safety. Other people put their guns away when they are home with the kids.

    What's the answer? I don't know. A level III security holster like cops use? Then carry whatever gun you like?
    Last edited by Duelist; 11-24-2017 at 01:40 PM.

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