Firearms and young children

[fixer]

going through all this right now.

I had previously decided the best set up for me was a 92, extra precautions with putting things in safes, or in far out of the way places. My reasoning was similar--a 92 with a thumb safety presented several layers of protection against a worst case scenario of my kid getting a hold of the pistol without me being there.

I carried this platform for a long time. The DA pull consistently flummoxed me. I've put thousands of rounds down range. Had good instruction and dry fired like a mad man. I've concluded that the 92s DA pull was way too long for my hand size. The problem is that I had really really bad consistency in shooting the first DA shot. This presented a problem where my confidence in accurately deploying the weapon was at a record low.

I still think the DA/SA is a more safe design but I now have to find the right platform. PX4? 229? P30? I don't know. I would have to make a big platform change that I don't have the space in my life for right now (and won't in the near future). Busy dad, busy worker bee, house projects, etc...My time at the range is carefully plotted and planned.

So...that all led my back to the Glock platform.

I went to the range last weekend for the first time with a Glock in 8 months and had impressive results substantially better than my DA shooting.

So I'm working with a platform that I shoot better, need less range time to maintain, and have to invent new routines and disciplines to prevent unwanted access.

[Duelist]

OP: you are doing things right.

The most important steps, especially at that young age are:
gun on body in a solid holster, or gun locked up. Being consistent and 100% on those two points is by far the best thing you can do.

If you want more reassurance: a TDA might be helpful. In my experience they are dang hard for a kid under 8 yo discharge a DA shot. It can be done but takes persistence.

Yours is too young to do a ton of education but very soon you should do just that. My kids think guns are boring. Occasionally they will ask to hold or see one and they always get that chance if they ask.

My kids pretty much think they are boring, too. Sometimes I wonder what I could have done to encourage more interest. They will go shoot with me to spend time with me, but don't think to ask to go on their own. My 18yo went to a local club match with me, and shot and did fine, he was very safe, and said he had a good time and liked the gun he used. I asked him if he wanted one for himself, and he said he'd rather start playing violin.

I bought him a violin.

[JRB]

While I appreciate and respect your prioritization here, I don't feel it's entirely rational. I believe teaching your child, empathically, never to touch your holster, and perhaps adding some kind of holster retention are much more critical variables in this kind of situation than the weapon itself.

I totally understand and respect what you're saying on the chaotic spontaneity with which kids can go from docile to hyperactively feral, believe me! - and having spent a lot of time carrying around a LOT of very hyperactive young kids (my ex of 6 years was a pre-school teacher that focused on 3yr-4yr olds) and carrying around my now-2.5 year old nephew - I firmly believe that disciplinary reinforcement ("NO! DO NOT GRAB THAT SPOT ON DADDY") should be the focus, and perhaps changing your holster to include some kind of secondary retention if it makes you feel better and doesn't substantially slow your draw.

In short, I believe you should focus on how best to keep that weapon in the holster - not changing the weapon around.

[Cookie Monster]

Your thinking hard about it which is good. I got two boys that are 2 years plus.

I roll with pocket carrying a G42 right now, used to be a G26 but health issues. The way my world is I cannot comfortably carry AIWB or IWB fulltime as much as I would like to. I come home, put the weapons it in the safe (except for my fists) and go about wrestling and playing and doing dad stuff. I can easily compluse about things so having to keep aware of a firearm or worrying about that would (I feel) interfere with my time with my boys. Do to a lots of things, I often feel I am not firing on all cylinders - fatigue, joint pain, and job stress.

I feel like my boys are a year or two away from getting it with guns. They are helping with cooking so are pretty good about keeping their hands off the knives and other adult tools. But pretty good and guns is not something I feel like trying.

Something I have learned as a parent is that you have to make the choices that are right for your family and you. Going through parenthood has made me a lot better at not judging people.

I also have a wife who hates guns and loves me enough to ignore that I carry everyday, have 5 fire extinguishers in the house, and the myriad of other "weird" things I do.

So yea, I put the guns away and do my thing. When I leave the homestead, I arm up and pocket carry I feel keep things very discreet and contained. This is right for me, probably not for you but wanted to put out an opinion that might be a little different then you will hear on PF.

[Cory]

My son turned a year old on the 22nd. So I'm just a tad behind you. Since I work from home now I'm not carrying very much. In addition I don't have my concealed permit in my new state, so it's going to be a little bit before I do begin carrying again. I have however been working on dry fire, and needed to pause to do something with my son, while my G17 was AIWB. I understand your concerns, but feel that if you are using a quality holster you should be adequately able to prevent them from accessing the firearm on your person and discharging it.

As far as around the house safety, I keep all of my firearms in one room, which ammo never enters. Ammo is kept in my bedroom, firearms in my office. Firearms don't go in the bedroom (usually. HD gun in small safe is the exception), ammo doesn't go in the office. If the two are never together, than they can't go bang. It's my intention to eventually have a large gun safe to store my firearms (as oppose to just keeping my office door closed and off limits as I do now), and a smaller safe in my bedroom to contain home defense options (though large enough for a single long gun). That's the hardware solution I'm aiming for.

The software solution I plan on when he gets older basically involves shooting. I want my son to know that I really enjoy firearms, and it's something I'm excited to share with him. Any time he wants to "play" with my guns I'll be more than happy to get them out, show him how to make sure they are empty, and how they work. Anytime you want to know more about Dad's hobby just ask, buddy. Because I absolutely can't wait to teach you about them, how they work, what they do. I look forward to the first time I see him bust a clay, shoot a handgun drill, and zero a rifle. So anytime he wants to "play" with my guns I'll take the time to teach him about them so we can share good times on the range later. Hopefully that stops my guns from being taboo, or something to be curious about.

So, I guess my aim is to prevent access without me, and prevent them from being something to be curious about. I do need to move past a closed door for access prevention. I just don't have the cash for a long gun safe at the moment.

-Cory

[StraitR]

I went through the same thought process because of my young kids, and along with some other factors, decided on pistols with manual safeties.

I'll likely go my whole life without ever using a firearm in defense, but my kids are in close proximity to them in one capacity or another on a daily basis. If nothing happens, if something happens, both are on me. If I were perfect, I wouldn't worry about such things. But I'm not, so I take as many precautions as possible on the chance I make a mistake with potentially permanent consequences.

If mission drives the gear train, it's a matter of prioritizing our missions and choosing accordingly. One will either error on the side of caution or not, we're all predisposed and have our tendencies.

ETA: There are no absolutes in this. Like any other firearm issue, there isn't a guaranteed hardware fix to software issues. Kids are software issues. Us leaving the gun on the bathroom sink, or the safe door open, is a software issue. Mistakes happen. The goal with my choice is to simply add a layer of complexity in the hardware while simultaneously addressing software.

[zart312]

I totally get it. That’s why I put the glocks in the safe and bought a couple da/sa HK’s. I feel very good about my 17 month old daughter sleeping on my lap, carrying her, or being on the floor with her. Now I’m just trying to decide if I want to change them to lem variants.


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[HCM]

I totally get it. That’s why I put the glocks in the safe and bought a couple da/sa HK’s. I feel very good about my 17 month old daughter sleeping on my lap, carrying her, or being on the floor with her. Now I’m just trying to decide if I want to change them to lem variants.


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The USPC can be converted to LEM with a manual safety.

[M2CattleCo]

DA/SA, manual safety, tell 'em to never touch, is a recipe for disaster. They WILL be able to make the gun fire, they WILL play with them if they find them when you're not around. As already stated, if they can't pull the trigger with their finger, they'll turn the pistol around and pull it with their thumbs.

I have a 2yo boy and 9yo girl that are curious about everything. My 2yo has NEVER seen a gun fired in person, has never even seen me dry-fire a pistol. A few months before he turned two he was with me while I was working on a frame and I had an old stripped Glock 17K frame that has been used as a test mule for stippling and stuff like that. He immediately picked it up and started pointing it at things and making gun sounds. Kids know more than we think they do.

I carry a Glock the same way I always have carried, either AIWB, or strongside IWB or OWB.

With kids you have to be VIGILANT in remaining in 100% control of your guns 100% of the time. The only pistol not in the safe is on my body in a holster. When my pistol comes off at night, an AR comes out of the safe and is placed in my closet. When I wake up at 0530-0600, the AR comes out of the closet and goes to the safe where a Glock is put on for the day. My belts and holsters are kept in the closet where the safe is and that's where they stay when not on me. Carrying the AR to the safe is part of getting dressed as my belts and holsters are kept in the room with the safe. Taking the Glock off and putting it in the safe is part of getting undressed as I hang my belts next to the safe. I'm always looking for ways to improve the system.

[StraitR]

The USPC can be converted to LEM with a manual safety.

That's awesome. Any other models able to do the same? P30 or P2k?