Firearms and young children

[breakingtime91]

My son is just around a year and a half now. He is running around, yelling, and getting into everything. I have been causally talking about a "Dad Gun" for awhile now and some other considerations have really come to the forefront. Whether intelligently thought out or not, I am not incredibly comfortable carrying a Glock around my son. He climbs all over me and grabs at my clothing, which is sort of a concealment concern but the biggest issue I have been worrying about is him actually grabbing onto the gun or dislodging it while carrying him. While the chance is remote, it wouldnt be the first time he goes from 0% activity to 150% grabbing and ripping at things. Not sure if this concern makes a lot of sense but for whatever reason, I am looking for a set up that has more margin for error. I never leave loaded guns out, they are always in the safe and the only gun loaded is the carry gun and if its not in the safe its on my body. Anyone else go through this? My wife and I had his conversation last week and her thought process mirrored mine, we want the safest set up possible that will allow me to protect us but also give the biggest margin against accidents.

I understand all firearms are dangerous but I am really starting to see from taking an unbiased look that some are just simply easier for a child to grab onto and inadvertently fire. It has been awhile since my "two years with a g19" journal has been updated at that was partly because the craziness of life, school, and work but also this concern. This is mostly a mind dump about my own issues and feelings, but it is something my family has been discussing and for now I have opted to carry a shield 9mm with manual safety that I had in the safe until I can figure out how I want to proceed.

[breakingtime91]

My son is almost 6 and I’ve been his primary, and often sole, caregiver the entire time. I’ve carried a G19 AIWB daily and never had any issue with the gun becoming dislodged, due to my son or otherwise. Perhaps he wasn’t as “grabby” as your boy is.

The biggest “problem” I had was the persistent tendinitis in my left elbow from always carrying him with my left arm. I was weirdly anti-stroller and until he could get around on his own out in public, I carried him.

He is really curious about everything. Lifts up your shirt to make sure you have a belly button, takes hard drives from
Xboxes, will try to grab my flashlight out of my pocket, etc. like I said, I’m not sure if I’m being 100% rationale or if I’m just being a over protective/concerned relatively new Dad.

[Qaz98]

Following. @breakingtime91 I share your sentiments. I went from IWB to AIWB, in part because of my kids. I was always flashing when I bent over to play with them or chasing them around. I do think most people will tell you that if you have a good holster, it shouldn't be a problem. Having said that, I am transitioning myself towards DA/SA. I showed my son (5ish) some pistols, and after the safety check, had him hold it, and pull the trigger (while observing and verbalizing all gun safety rules!). With two fingers, he could pull the Striker- his hands were way too small and did not have enough finger strength to pull the DA. So at my kids current age, I think DA/SA is safer - and for me, too! That's my own personal take on it. YMMV. IMHO. LOL. WTF. (Not a big fan of text abbreviations, haha.)

[Duelist]

Friend of mine has two little girls who act like you describe your son, as well as an infant. He has a collection to choose from, but only likes to carry Glock - so he's carrying Israeli style, and won't hear of doing something different.

I'd say your shield is a good way to go for now. Certainly better than Israeli style.

When my kids were little, I primarily carried a jframe in a SmartCarry or in a horsehide pocket holster. Today, I'm not sure what I would do differently than my G26 in a JCMK IWB holster to keep it away from little kids. I have no grandkids, (and if neither of my kids starts dating sometime, may never have any) but we do have wee nieces and nephews and cousins around. I am not the wrestle on the ground uncle, so my thoughts on this are more along the lines of: keep carrying something. A little safety lever (like an M&P can have) may or may not be the answer. Maybe a TDA is the answer. Maybe a TDA with a safety is the answer.

The thing that I've always espoused is that you cannot kid-proof your guns without making them useless. All my guns that I'm not actually using or carrying are locked up. They are essentially useless. I could make them more kid-proof: they could all be completely separated from all ammunition (keep it in another safe in an outbuilding!?) and disassemble the guns that can be so stored, with cable locks on the rest. I don't go to such silly extremes, but I do lock most of them up most of the time, and all the time if there are kids in the house besides mine. That's fine, I have one or two out and they're what I intend to repel any boarding parties with. But I still have visiting kids to be concerned with, that one or those two guns are probably out, and kids are curious and smart and stupid. Curious, especially about little machines and things they see on TV. Smart about figuring things out, like how to make things go or mimicking what they see others do, like actors. Stupid about consequences: and that leads to kids shooting siblings, parents, grandparents, babysitters, or themselves.

So, gun-proofing your kids becomes the key thing. If you take away the stupid, smart, and curious issues they have around guns, guns become much less dangerous to them. Show them what guns really do: put kid sized eye and ear pro on them, and blow up a pumpkin, put a JHP through a large watermelon, and ask if they'd like to see a hole like that in they're own stomach or mom or Dad or the cat. Concrete examples make them less stupid about what guns really do: they make holes in stuff. Show them how they work, and let them help clean them, and let them touch them whenever they ask. This takes away the curious and smart issues they have: they won't be tempted to play with forbidden fruit because it isn't forbidden. They won't need to try to figure out how to make it work because they already know. And they will know that one of the few times a spanking (or other severe punishment) might happen would be if they touched a gun w/o asking. Then you expand to the Eddie Eagle stuff: never touch a gun in someone else's house, and leave a house that leaves them out, or friends who play with them.

You are going to have guns in your house. Half their friends, statistically, will likely have guns in their houses. You have to gun-proof your kids, not the other way around.

Your carry gun, and your carry method, are really only a small part of that. I firmly believe you can safely carry a GLOCK or any other safe gun, fully loaded, safely around your children. But the gun, holster, position, and belt (if needed) are a system you will have to parse carefully.

[Duelist]

Following. @breakingtime91 I share your sentiments. I went from IWB to AIWB, in part because of my kids. I was always flashing when I bent over to play with them or chasing them around. I do think most people will tell you that if you have a good holster, it shouldn't be a problem. Having said that, I am transitioning myself towards DA/SA. I showed my son (5ish) some pistols, and after the safety check, had him hold it, and pull the trigger (while observing and verbalizing all gun safety rules!). With two fingers, he could pull the Striker- his hands were way too small and did not have enough finger strength to pull the DA. So at my kids current age, I think DA/SA is safer - and for me, too! That's my own personal take on it. YMMV. IMHO. LOL. WTF. (Not a big fan of text abbreviations, haha.)

A 5yo can get a TDA to fire. The child will use both his or her thumbs on the trigger, fingers all on the back of the grip, gun upside down, muzzle pointed at their chest or stomach, and perhaps in contact in order to get the leverage needed to overcome the trigger weight.

There is no kid-proof gun.

Gun-proof your kids. A 5yo can cognate well enough to really understand the consequences of real bullets destroying large fruits - they need concrete, real examples they can extrapolate from because fantasy and reality are only starting to separate at that young age.

[breakingtime91]

A 5yo can get a TDA to fire. The child will use both his or her thumbs on the trigger, finger on the back of the grip, gun upside down, muzzle pointed at their chest or stomach, and perhaps in contact in order to get the leverage needed to overcome the trigger weight.

There is no kid-proof gun.

Gun-proof your kids. A 5yo can cognate well enough to really understand the consequences of real bullets destroying large fruits - they need concrete, real examples they can extrapolate from because fantasy and reality are only starting to separate at that young age.

I plan on doing what your saying and have already taken steps, like having guns away that are not in use or could be within reach. I think what your saying is really the most important but you can have certain firearms that are harder for kids to work, like a 1911 with a grip safety and manual safety that they would have to figure out before you realized whats happening. no gun is "safe" for kids but I think some give you more time/margin for error

[LOKNLOD]

The main problem I’ve had with it was once when I was flopped back in a chair and one of the girls came over and flopped face first into my lap and busted her lip on the slide of a P30.

I think it’s a legitimate concern, based on what you know is best for your comfort level and your knowledge of your kid’s behavior.

I think the manual safety idea is a good extra level, my wife’s main gun would be a thumb safety shield for a similar reason.

[Qaz98]

A 5yo can get a TDA to fire. The child will use both his or her thumbs on the trigger, fingers all on the back of the grip, gun upside down, muzzle pointed at their chest or stomach, and perhaps in contact in order to get the leverage needed to overcome the trigger weight.

There is no kid-proof gun.

Gun-proof your kids. A 5yo can cognate well enough to really understand the consequences of real bullets destroying large fruits - they need concrete, real examples they can extrapolate from because fantasy and reality are only starting to separate at that young age.

Yeah, I'm not saying that TDA is kid proof - and I like the phrase if gun proofing your kids, rather than kid proofing your guns. I do, believe, however, that a TDA would be more difficult than a Striker with 5.5 lb trigger pull - and even safer than a 1911 with a manual safety and a 3 lb trigger pull. Others may disagree. But it's also the reason I now prefer a TDA for EDC because of the deliberate first pull, for myself, and not just because I think it's kid-proof.

[Doc_Glock]

OP: you are doing things right.

The most important steps, especially at that young age are:
gun on body in a solid holster, or gun locked up. Being consistent and 100% on those two points is by far the best thing you can do.

If you want more reassurance: a TDA might be helpful. In my experience they are dang hard for a kid under 8 yo discharge a DA shot. It can be done but takes persistence.

Yours is too young to do a ton of education but very soon you should do just that. My kids think guns are boring. Occasionally they will ask to hold or see one and they always get that chance if they ask.

[Bigghoss]

Gun-proof your kids. A 5yo can cognate well enough to really understand the consequences of real bullets destroying large fruits - they need concrete, real examples they can extrapolate from because fantasy and reality are only starting to separate at that young age.

I have done this and it works.