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Thread: Classic revolvers and those who carried them

  1. #91
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    [QUOTE=11B10;1080464]
    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    Bill Jordan commented on that practice in No Second Place Winner. He wrote that simply applying pressure to the right elbow would prevent a draw from a cross draw holster on the left side. His suggestion was to place the gun in the center of the belt for a left hand draw.

    The last time I saw anyone wearing a cross draw holster, it was an older Bailiff carrying a J frame while wearing a suit in the mid 1990’s.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE



    Two weeks ago, I had my second total knee replacement and have been rereading some older books - one of which was "No Second Place Winner." Anyone who can make hits from the hip like Bill Jordan, Charles Askins, and others routinely did are amazing.
    I hope you have a good recovery. I am still a long way away from replacement, but I do have osteoarthritis from 30 years of running.

    I suspect that the hip shooting was partially the result of the lower ride holsters that were worn at the time. Years ago on another forum, Southnarc demonstrated that once a gun is drawn from a typical present day IWB holster, the gun actually travels less distance to go to a pectoral index than it does to go to a hip index.

    I have tried hip shooting, both informally on my own and as part of a training class. Shooting from hip or lower chest height - regardless of whether done with 1 or 2 hands - is difficult, highly dependent on using the same gun (or at least guns with identical grips and grip angles), and very difficult to make consistent and repeatable. I have found that making hits from a pectoral index is much simpler, repeatable, and dependable.

    I have never actually had to draw a gun on another living thing, so I want to be very careful about critiquing the technique of someone like Bill Jordan, who I understand had nine gunfights in the Border Patrol and countless fights in the military. In his case, I suspect that natural ability played a huge part, as well as significant practice. At one point, he made his living demonstrating his shooting skills, which demonstrates that his skills were not something most men will ever achieve.

  2. #92
    I’ll put forth a man I met years ago at a range in northern Virginia: Walter Walsh. He was an FBI Agent in the 1930s and was a gunfighter. He was also a dedicated competitor in Bullseye competition. I listened a bit as he spoke sparingly with a few people in the clubhouse, but did not go into any depth on his experiences.
    Later research found he volunteered for the USMC, and fought in the Pacific theater in WW2. On one island(and this is documented), he made a stopping shot on a Japanese sniper at about 90 yards(!). I think his time well spent in competition.
    I recall he carried both a .357 S&W and a 1911 as an agent.

  3. #93
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    Jul 2015
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    The Keystone State
    [QUOTE=BillSWPA;1080470]
    Quote Originally Posted by 11B10 View Post

    I hope you have a good recovery. I am still a long way away from replacement, but I do have osteoarthritis from 30 years of running.

    I suspect that the hip shooting was partially the result of the lower ride holsters that were worn at the time. Years ago on another forum, Southnarc demonstrated that once a gun is drawn from a typical present day IWB holster, the gun actually travels less distance to go to a pectoral index than it does to go to a hip index.

    I have tried hip shooting, both informally on my own and as part of a training class. Shooting from hip or lower chest height - regardless of whether done with 1 or 2 hands - is difficult, highly dependent on using the same gun (or at least guns with identical grips and grip angles), and very difficult to make consistent and repeatable. I have found that making hits from a pectoral index is much simpler, repeatable, and dependable.

    I have never actually had to draw a gun on another living thing, so I want to be very careful about critiquing the technique of someone like Bill Jordan, who I understand had nine gunfights in the Border Patrol and countless fights in the military. In his case, I suspect that natural ability played a huge part, as well as significant practice. At one point, he made his living demonstrating his shooting skills, which demonstrates that his skills were not something most men will ever achieve.






    Thanks for the good wishes! My journey into knee replacements (1st one done 2010) began with a near-fatal MVA in 1975. Because of that - and an extremely ill-advised mid-30's quest into powerlifting, I've had both shoulders, both wrists, both knees, lumbar, etc. (you get the idea) repaired/reconstructed/replaced. Allow me to offer one, probably obvious to you, piece of advice: work as hard as you can in physical therapy - it really pays off.

    As to your words on the time differential in shooting styles, imagine what those great shooters could and would do with more modern gear. One thing I had forgotten about Mr. Jordan was how huge his hands were!!! And, in the photos in "No Second Place Winner," Mr. Bill sure had some God-given "guns." It reminds me of the first time I watched Jerry Miculek shoot - because of those meathook-like hands, you almost felt sorry for the gun.
    "We are the domestic pets of a human zoo we call civilization."

    Laurence Gonzales - "Deep Survival."

  4. #94
    Member jtcarm's Avatar
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    Jul 2018
    Location
    Texas Cross Timbers
    [QUOTE=11B10;1080856]
    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post







    Thanks for the good wishes! My journey into knee replacements (1st one done 2010) began with a near-fatal MVA in 1975. Because of that - and an extremely ill-advised mid-30's quest into powerlifting, I've had both shoulders, both wrists, both knees, lumbar, etc. (you get the idea) repaired/reconstructed/replaced. Allow me to offer one, probably obvious to you, piece of advice: work as hard as you can in physical therapy - it really pays off.

    As to your words on the time differential in shooting styles, imagine what those great shooters could and would do with more modern gear. One thing I had forgotten about Mr. Jordan was how huge his hands were!!! And, in the photos in "No Second Place Winner," Mr. Bill sure had some God-given "guns." It reminds me of the first time I watched Jerry Miculek shoot - because of those meathook-like hands, you almost felt sorry for the gun.
    I always envied them with my stubby digits, although JM grips work pretty well for me. Go figure.

    I believe Jordan’s M19 had a good but of steel removed from the right side of the trigger guard to help his double-extra-long finger inside.

    I literally feel your pain. I was in a nasty wreck the same year. Back then they pretty much only treated obvious injuries, which was a nasty cut in my ear. I’ve since learned I had a broken glenoid and whiplash. 45 years later that’s lead to arthritis in my neck and pinched C5-C7 nerves. In fact I’m headed for PT right now, could barely lift my right arm over my head 2 weeks ago.

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