Raven Concealment Systems Perun (Phantom Replacement)

[Casual Friday]

It looks like a Blade Tech Total Eclipse with some different styling cues...


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Little smaller footprint but it indeed reminds me of the Eclipse holsters I have for my P2000 and USP 45, which by the way make excellent OWB hiking/outdoors holsters.

[NickDrak]

Agreed. They are saying this is like an OWB Eidolon. I hope not, as I did not care for the Eidolon, particularly the gun fit / retention.

I’m avtually very fo d of the eidolon. Been carrying a 17 w/RMR in one since they first came out.

[RCSMichael]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I can't get excited about this design. It seems to be trying to be all things to all people with a full shield on both sides, multiple different kinds of attachments, left handed or right handed compatible. I imagine this being more attractive for agency/gov sales than individual enthusiasts, although most agency requirements for issued OWB holsters require some kind of active retention. As an enthusiast, I know exactly how I want my holsters setup, and it's generally not best achieved by a "one size fits all" solution.

This product is MUCH simpler than the Phantom or the Eidolon. We made it ambi, just like the Eidolon, just like the Morrigan, just like the Copia, just like the VG2, etc...because because while lefties are ~4% of the population over the age of 45, they make up anywhere from 11%-15% of the population under the age of 40, and many expect that percentage to continue to grow (apparently, southpaws are breeding like rabbits lol). To make this concession, all we had to do was take the Phantom, cut the curved part of the body off, and build that curvature into the belt attachments. It sacrifices nothing in performance, and it beats the alternative of building left- and right-hand molds for every model of pistol we want to support, literally doubling the cost of production. Or the other option, which was "just tell lefties 'tough shit.'"

It's basically the form factor of the Eidolon, with the ability to wear it on the belt OWB and have it conceal as well (or better) than a Phantom. I fail to grasp how this is perceived as "trying to be all things to all people."

[TGS]

I'm suspicious of the adjustable retention. My agency has been buying us Raven gear for a couple years now, and the Raven is the current issue holster for the G19M and Gen 4 G26. To Gio's point, we are only required Lvl 2 retention when open carrying, to which end we're issued the Safariland 7TS ALS with a QLS system.

The adjustable retention screws have fallen out on every piece of Raven gear I've used. This last week I lost both screws and springs on the adjustable double mag pouch in less than 1 day on the range.

[MGW]

I think we need to actually use it before deciding if it works or not. I love my Phantom for my 19 with pancake wings. I can wear it under a hoody or flannel shirt with no issues. It works well enough under short sleeve plaid 511 style shirts to work in permissive environments. On long trips in the car it makes a more comfortable option to appendix carry. I will occasionally use it under BDU tops if I know I’m going to be stuck sitting for multiple days in a row.

My only issue with the Phantom is I couldn’t make it work with any other pistol than a 19. Phantoms also tend to have inconsistent retention. To tight on some pistols and not tight enough on others.

I’m looking forward to testing a couple out when they are available.


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[RCSMichael]

It was an excellent business decision, no doubt. I just am not digging the execution (as I said, it looks like a Blade Tech Total Eclipse). I like the fact that it is adjustable tension and RMR compatible, but I don’t see it as earth shattering. All that being said, I didn’t like the Eidelon after using it. I’ll probably still buy one of these so I can form a decent opinion. Also, I hate thinly veiled allusion to government contracts.


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For what it's worth, we haven't marketed it as "earth shattering;" we simply wanted to replace the Phantom with a product that could meet or exceed the concealability, comfort, and durability of the Phantom line, and we're pretty confident that we have done so. We wanted to improve on aspects like RDS compatibility and adjustable retention, which the Phantom lacked. We wanted to reduce the size of the holster body so that it would work with a wider range of body types, and be more comfortable while sitting in vehicles. And we wanted to find a way to make them faster and with greater consistency.

I didn't make any "veiled allusion to government contracts." I was giving context to the timeline of development of this product. 16 months ago, we knew that the MHS solicitation was coming, and we knew that the FBI pistol solicitation was coming. Both of those weapon procurements would mean that the rest of the federal LE system would likely head down the same path that Big Army or the Bureau selected, and likely piggyback on the main contract. That meant a potential opportunity for hundreds of thousands of new holsters to go along with all those new pistols. For opportunities that big, we knew that we were one of only four, MAYBE five companies that had the ability to meet the requirements of such contracts, and we knew that the only way for us to ensure our ability to be competitive and meet deadlines without telling the consumer market to fuck off was to develop this product.

I don't need to make allusions to government business; everyone already knows we do tons of business with .gov/.mil clients, and much of that is a matter of public record if you want to look up the solicitations. I merely was pointing out that we set this project in motion all those months ago because we intended to pursue an opportunity that was going to present itself, and that opportunity was so large that we took enormous risk and made unbelievable sacrifices to make this holster happen. Guys were asking why we did the Perun before Eidolon LC or whatever else, and I was explaining the business factors that drove the decision.

[Sigfan26]

For what it's worth, we haven't marketed it as "earth shattering;" we simply wanted to replace the Phantom with a product that could meet or exceed the concealability, comfort, and durability of the Phantom line, and we're pretty confident that we have done so. We wanted to improve on aspects like RDS compatibility and adjustable retention, which the Phantom lacked. We wanted to reduce the size of the holster body so that it would work with a wider range of body types, and be more comfortable while sitting in vehicles. And we wanted to find a way to make them faster and with greater consistency.

I didn't make any "veiled allusion to government contracts." I was giving context to the timeline of development of this product. 16 months ago, we knew that the MHS solicitation was coming, and we knew that the FBI pistol solicitation was coming. Both of those weapon procurements would mean that the rest of the federal LE system would likely head down the same path that Big Army or the Bureau selected, and likely piggyback on the main contract. That meant a potential opportunity for hundreds of thousands of new holsters to go along with all those new pistols. For opportunities that big, we knew that we were one of only four, MAYBE five companies that had the ability to meet the requirements of such contracts, and we knew that the only way for us to ensure our ability to be competitive and meet deadlines without telling the consumer market to fuck off was to develop this product.

I don't need to make allusions to government business; everyone already knows we do tons of business with .gov/.mil clients, and much of that is a matter of public record if you want to look up the solicitations. I merely was pointing out that we set this project in motion all those months ago because we intended to pursue an opportunity that was going to present itself, and that opportunity was so large that we took enormous risk and made unbelievable sacrifices to make this holster happen. Guys were asking why we did the Perun before Eidolon LC or whatever else, and I was explaining the business factors that drove the decision.

My apologies, that last part came off as rude. It was the end of a very, very long week getting ready for holiday sales and I was a bit “crispy”.


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[Peally]

For 35 bucks or whatever it's not going to be much of an investment to test out compared to a phantom. Worst case scenario I'll get one and sell it if I hate it with a fiery passion for some reason.

[littlejerry]

Looks like a good GP holster.

Frankly I'm glad to see more molded holsters come to market. Kydex is a popular holster material because of the ease of hobbyist level manufacturing, not because of it's superior mechanical properties.

[Gio]

This product is MUCH simpler than the Phantom or the Eidolon. We made it ambi, just like the Eidolon, just like the Morrigan, just like the Copia, just like the VG2, etc...because because while lefties are ~4% of the population over the age of 45, they make up anywhere from 11%-15% of the population under the age of 40, and many expect that percentage to continue to grow (apparently, southpaws are breeding like rabbits lol). To make this concession, all we had to do was take the Phantom, cut the curved part of the body off, and build that curvature into the belt attachments. It sacrifices nothing in performance, and it beats the alternative of building left- and right-hand molds for every model of pistol we want to support, literally doubling the cost of production. Or the other option, which was "just tell lefties 'tough shit.'"

It's basically the form factor of the Eidolon, with the ability to wear it on the belt OWB and have it conceal as well (or better) than a Phantom. I fail to grasp how this is perceived as "trying to be all things to all people."

Michael,

I appreciate your explanation and completely understand where you guys had to move from a business standpoint both to simplify production cost/complexity and to position yourself to fill major contracts.

I've been a customer of yours since ~2007-08 back when you guys were truly a custom shop. I still have a holster you built me for a Springfield Pro/light rail with a streamlight TLR-2 with a thumb break retention strap that is a holdover from when my agency required a thumb break for our 1911's. I have carried your holsters in some of the most non-permissive areas you can imagine and have always recommended them to people who were looking for more performance than the standard issued gear we were given. Most of the shooters on my team/unit all went to RCS holsters for our plain clothes missions (out of our own pocket), and the majority of us still carry them in some capacity.

The point of my post was more of a lamentation that you guys got so big that you've completely moved away from the "custom" holster market. You've gone that way more and more over the years, and this seems even a bigger step that direction considering the pictures we've seen show the Perun with two full body shields on each side and lack of curvature to it, which is TBD whether that will negatively impact concealment or comfort in OWB or IWB setups.

I will likely still be recommending the Perun, especially for shooters who aren't enthusiasts and don't know whether they want straight drop, or 10% cant, or IWB, or OWB, etc. I see an advantage in the versatility for people to be able to adjust those things to experiment with what works best for them, but when I know exactly how I want my gear setup, I'd rather buy something that is tailor made for the role.