Revolver Problems

[Kalashnikovkid]

Howdy ladies and gents,

I've been running into a issue with my S&W K frames, I'm at wits end, and you guys are my last hoorah before I call it quits.

Background:
I have 4 K frames (S&W M10-5, S&W 64, S&W M15, S&W M19) and 1 S&W 36 that I shoot regularly and reload for. I'm a .mil dude who has carried an M9 for years without issue, but because I shoot at an indoor range and DOD pay isn't the greatest, I have tried to dedicate myself to the K frames because not chasing brass & not loosing brass saves me time & money. I do all of my reloading on a Lee 4 Hole Classic Turret Press with auto disk riser.

The Problem(s):
Started reloading in 2016, and have run into a number of issues with my K frames.
#1- Missouri Bullet Company 158 grain RN bullet (#15), 3.4grains of HP38, COAL of 1.480, no roll crimp, CCI primers. Caused occasional squib rounds. NONE of my guns would reliably pop the CCI primers. Though all of my guns are older, I've not changed out any mainsprings. Additionally,after a few cylinders, the pull sometimes gets very heavy and the cylinder does not want to turn. Opening and closing the cylinder will sometimes make this issue go away. Does this across the board, regardless of revolver. Cartridges do not always drop into cylinder freely. Changed to Winchester Small Pistol Primers, faulty ignition issue went away.

#2- Missouri Bullet Company 158 grain RN bullet (#15), 3.4grains of HP38, COAL of 1.480, no roll crimp, Winchester Small Pistol Primer- Getting regular squib rounds, with yellow flakes sometimes (burned powder?) coming out the front of the muzzle and inside the cylinder after ejecting brass. Still having the heavy trigger pull and cylinder not wanting to turn issue. Cartridges do not always drop into cylinder freely.
Increased the charge load to 3.7 grains (3.8 grains is max)thinking lower end charge weight is the problem, still experienced same issue.

#3- Missouri Bullet Company 158 grain RN bullet (#15), 3.4 grains of HP38, COAL of 1.480, .005 roll crimp, Winchester Small Pistol Primer- Squib issue occurs less frequently, but still happens. Still experiencing heavy trigger pull and cylinder not wanting to turn issue. Roll crimp allows cartridges to drop into cylinder like candy into a fat kid's mouth

#4- Berry's 125 grain plated bullet, 4.5 grains of HP38, COAL of 1.455, .005 roll crimp , Winchester Small Pistol Primers- No squibs. Trigger pull issue occurs less frequently, but still does occur. Cartridges enter cylinder without issue.

Problem Solutions/Conclusion:
Some of my issues probably stem from being new to reloading, and I get that. However, the real stick in my craw is that I have loaded a bunch of 9mm and .45 ACP on this exact same press, and I've shot nearly 2000 of both combined without ANY issues through my Beretta 92 and RIA GI 1911. With the 9mm, I've seated 125 grain coated bullets from 1.080 to 1.135 and never missed a beat. CCI primers? 92FS don't care;goes boom. Same thing with Winchester and Federal primers. This is starting to make me think that maybe the revolver reliability bit is just a myth, and for a guy that puts about 10,000 rounds a year downrange, they just aren't a good fit. If I can't get this figured out, I'm going to get rid of 2 of the K frames and just stick to what has worked reliably (9mm and .45 ACP)

Because I'd like to be a volume shooter and I am on a budget, I'd really like to get my .38 Special lead loads to work because I can actually bulk afford the bullets and I have lots of brass. Any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated.

-Kalashnikovkid

[Lester Polfus]

I think the cartridges not wanting to drop into the cylinder, the binding cylinder, and the squib rounds may all be interrelated.

If the cartridges are a bit oversized, they wont' drop in easily, they will sit a little proud of the cylinder which means the rims will rub against the recoil shield. Then when you pull the trigger, some of the hammer's energy is used to drive the cartridge deeper into the chamber, which means it doesn't light off the primer. Several years ago I had a box of factory Winchester White Box ammo that exhibited these same symptoms.

I think your issues have to do with sizing and crimping, and perhaps overall length.

The 1.455" OAL is more in line with what I see in my loading manuals for a 158 grain LRN bullet.

I just bought a Lee Classic Turret press and found that I had to screw my sizer die down a little farther when using it on the turret head.

It's also possible that your bullets are a tich over sized.

I would try sizing some cases, and see how they fit the cylinder without a bullet in them. If they chamber fine and allow the cylinder to rotate, your problem is in the bullet/seating stage.

[Malamute]

Agree with the above post. I'll also suggest a firm roll crimp on everything on revolvers.

If your ammo isnt chambering freely, it will certainly have an effect on the guns function. Semi-autos are slamming the round into the chamber. If you were absolutely positive each round was firmly seated down on the rim, it may change how the gun runs. Since all of them seem to be affected, it indicates an ammo problem.

You may not have done anything to the springs, someone else may have. Are the mainspring strain screws firmly bottomed out? Do the tips of the screws look like theyve been filed or ground on? Have you taken the mainsprings (hammer spring) out of any of them? Springs can be kinked (intentionally) to change spring load rate. Looking at the spring out of the gun and compared to another one in unaltered condition may give a clue if its been messed with. New standard power springs arent very expensive. Not getting your primers seated into the bottom of the primer pocket can have the effect you describe. Im not happy with flush, I want them below flush and bottomed out in the pocket.

The technique used to eject brass can have an effect also. Muzzle straight up and a sharp slap on the extractor rod helps keep unburnt powder from getting under the star. Slow ejection and held sideways eventually causes problems in my experience. Holding the star up and toothbrushing under the star and in its recess in the cylinder, preferably without letting it down between phases of that operation, should get it cleared of gunk, I look carefully also. Zero gunk is the acceptable amount.

[FPS]

Can you pist some pics of your rounds, especially highlighting where the case meets the bullet?

Is your crimp at the cannaleur? Do you use the Lee FCD die? Are your primers seated at the proper depth?

I have had problems with CCI primers with aftermarket springs but generally not with stock (though jury is out on one gun atm).

[Hizzie]

Not popping primers like it should? Check the strain screws.

All these odd binding or cartridges not dropping issues? Thoroughly clean the cylinder. Get those chambers clean. Clean under ejector star. Make sure ejector rod is tight. Make sure it’s not bent.

[Tennessee Jed]

I shoot revolvers a lot, and I use the same press (Lee Classic Turret) and usually use the same bullet (MBC #15) as you for 38 Special. Whatever you do, don't give up. Handloading and firing cast bullets out of one of your fine revolvers are one of life's greatest pleasures.

I agree 100% with the posts above.

My guess is that the no roll crimp rounds you tried were a cause of the problems, as Lester described above. I don't know of any benefit of not roll-crimping a revolver cartridge. I usually crimp all revolver rounds pretty substantially. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die because it makes setting the crimp a very easy and simple task.

You've probably already done this, but I'm compelled to ask if the mainspring screws on your revolvers are fully tightened? On the rare occasion when an S&W doesn't pop a primer, the first thing I do is take off the stocks and check that screw. It has usually fixed the problem right away.

Don't give up. You will find a solution, and the world of shooters needs all the wheelgunners it can get.

[Malamute]

In case you dont know whats being mentioned, the mainspring strain screw is in the lower front of the grip frame. You may need to take the grips off to see and access it. It needs to be snugged up tight. Many get the idea its an adjustment for trigger pull. Well, sort of, but not really. If not snug, it can back out over time. What was once OK with ignition, then becomes not OK all by itself. If not snugged down, yes, the DA pull is lightened some, but the hammer strike is lessened, and inconsistent ignition can occur.

Humbly borrowed from elsewhere, mainspring strain screw.

[Lester Polfus]

RIght now you're kinda drowning in advice, but....

Might also be worth putting a box of factory rounds through the guns and see if the problem follows the gun or the ammo.

[Spartan1980]

I always loctite the strain screw. It should always be tightened all the way, they are notorious for backing out.

A roll crimp is pretty much mandatory or the bullets will pull out from inertial forces from recoil. It can get bad enough to protrude out of the front of the cylinder and lock up the gun depending on the bullet profile used, die dimensions, etc. A heavy roll crimp should always be used with a cannelure, if you do that with your plated bullets you will crimp right through that thin plating and you'll have the crappiest accuracy imaginable. Get some cast lead bullets with a crimp groove or jacketed bullets with a cannelure and roll crimp them well. You don't have to go nuts with it, but something needs to hold that bullet in place and bullet tension won't do it alone and a taper crimp is useless in revolvers, they are for autos that headspace on the case mouth. My 625 in .45ACP will not hold the bullets at all no matter what I do. I can fire 5 rounds and pull the 6th and it will be .030" to .050" longer. A bullet with a crimp groove and roll crimping into it solves this. Your .38s won't be as bad, but the same physics apply.

Edit: Just looked at the Missouri site and your bullet looks to have a groove. Seat to that depth and crimp into it. Alternatively you can roll crimp over the front of the driving band too, seat it about .015" into the case and then crimp. Just be sure to back off your load and work it back up anytime you shorten the OAL.

[Kalashnikovkid]

Thank you all very much for the advice so far! I checked the strain screws, and all of them are tight. I also cleaned as Hizzie prescribed before I last went to the range and had the experience that provoked me into writing my initial post, so I don't believe that's the issue. I'm at work right now, so I'm going to have to delay posting a picture of my loaded rounds (lol, gonna have to learn how to post pictures). I have shot factory ammunition through my guns without issue, so I agree that it is probably reloading related. I've got a bunch of deprimed and sized brass sitting around, so first chance I get I will try the chamber plunk test to see if they are being sized correctly and if they drop in without incident.

Assuming they do, after reading Lester's post, I'm wondering if my COAL is just too long. When I first started loading, I tried (without gunpowder) seating the bullets into the crimp groove, but IRC the OAL ended up being shorter than the published minimum OAL (1.475") so I decided against it.

When I get off work tomorrow, I will go try some of the things you all mentioned and report back with results.