My New Strange Grip?

[blues]

I've watched the Vogel video several times. Still not sure what he means by "monkey grip."

Randy

Monkey grip would be like wrapping your hand around the grip in circular fashion...bringing your thumb down to meet the middle finger of the strong hand. It's an example of what not to do...the idea being to have the thumb up high to allow the heel and meat below the thumb of the support hand to occupy the space behind the fingers, and below the thumb of the strong hand.

The strong hand applies pressure and support from the front of the grip (beneath the trigger guard) to the back strap. The support hand provides lateral stability (primarily) and also enhances the grip of the strong hand.

[blues]

I highly encourage you to look at the recent U.S. Army pistol manual which you can save as a .pdf file.

It is a wonderful resource that provides excellent descriptions and images of how to grip and deploy a semi-automatic handgun. I think you'll find it very helpful.

[scjbash]

Attachment 21459

Good video, but nothing I haven't seen before. I also don't enjoy shooting for very long using a death grip, as I find it very tiring.

You would likely see great benefit from working on your grip strength. Iron Mind and GNC both make good trainers. The GNC trainers are cheaper and good quality, but may not come in a light enough weight to start with. I believe the easiest GNC is 100 pounds. I believe Iron Mind's easiest is 60 pounds. I recommend the extension bands as well to help reduce the chance of injury.

[blues]

You would likely see great benefit from working on your grip strength. Iron Mind and GNC both make good trainers. The GNC trainers are cheaper and good quality, but may not come in a light enough weight to start with. I believe the easiest GNC is 100 pounds. I believe Iron Mind's easiest is 60 pounds. I recommend the extension bands as well to help reduce the chance of injury.

Another option is the Ivanko Super Gripper which I actually prefer to the IronMind CoC...(though I do use use their bands).

[scjbash]

Another option is the Ivanko Super Gripper which I actually prefer to the IronMind CoC...(though I do use use their bands).

Just googled it and I'm intrigued.

[P.E. Kelley]

I wouldn't go too far down the "need more grip strength" rabbit hole. Sure, strong hands are a benefit in most
every area of physical activity, so working on that is a good thing.

However, a proper hand placement, using a firm grip is more important than your ability to close a CoC #2.
I have an office job and don't "work out", yet I can close and hold a 1.5 so I expect many others can as well.
So, given that as baseline, most of us have "enough" grip strength.

[Peally]

I'm a pansy that can barely close a CoC Sport a few times without sore hands for the day and I manage sissy 9mm fine.

[critter]

The following is worth exactly what you paid for it:

My first suggestion would be to research and take a pistol course from someone reputable. Learn everything correctly (various stances, grips, etc., the 'right' way), choose what best matches/works for you and then modify slightly as necessary to fit you.

The thumb back like that is mimicking the front/back pressure of the push/pull grip which is one steady/stable as hell technique which utilizes the larger muscle groups more than hand grip strength. You might try that push/pull technique. Lots of videos about it. Sometimes you simply have to go back to the basics to solve something messing with your shot placement. It could be as simple as rotating your elbows up (without sticking them way out there) creating more of a vise type grip. Shooting an auto with your thumb back like seems likely to hinder mobility and get you a nice slide bite at some point.

While it seems counter-intuitive to go backwards it's often the quickest way to solve a problem.
A decent quick article on the most basic of the basics (even if you don't need this, someone else may):
The 3 Shooting Stances, Which one is right for you?

Even if everyone you know promotes and shoots a certain way doesn't mean you necessarily should. Success absolutely does leave clues and reinventing the shooting wheel is pretty silly. Safely and consistently putting rounds where you want 'em to go is the name of the game regardless of whether famous Shooter X does it that way or not.

[45dotACP]

Is this in untimed slow fire or group shooting?

If you're basing your performance on untimed slow fire accuracy, then your grip isn't the root cause of your problems, it's your trigger control. You can hold your gun upside down and pull the trigger with your pinky and for untimed group shooting, as long as you pull the trigger without disturbing the sights, you will hit the middle of the target.

If you're running drills, I'd be interested to know your hit factors for both types of grips. You don't need a super mega death grip, but having a solid technique would help.

I suspect your current technique is inefficient for recoil management. Flag the dominant thumb, place the hypothenar eminence if your non dominant thumb into the grip panel revealed by flagging your dominant thumb. You should grip pretty hard...but again, you don't need to have Vogels grip. He's a unique person and what works for Vogel might not work for you.

But the thumb behind the wrist...I haven't seen any effective/successful shooter use it aside from Jerry with a snubby...but your gun isn't a snubby.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[randyflycaster]

Went to the range today and used the Vogel "torque" grip, along with the Shannon Smith technique of using my strong hand fingertips as a wall, then pushing forward against the wall with my support-hand palm.

My shooting dramatically improved. My support hand did not slip off the gun. The Vogel grip made it easier for me to increase the lateral pressure on the gun.

I am very pleased. Thanks folks for all your help,

Randy