Stephen Willeford, Describes Stopping Gunman (Texas Church)

[HCM]

What happens if they don't break after the first dozen magazines?
What if they are experienced with fix and maneuver?
You can always "what if" a situation until you think you need so much shit that you never actually carry any of it.
From reading the "truck gun" thread, just having a rifle within reach of me most days puts me ahead of the majority of people even on this site.

There are many levels of preparedness between a .32 in the pocket and a full combat loadout and a few friends with combat loadouts.

To quote myself:

Read what I wrote again. Your opponent (They) being familiar with fire and maneuver is exactly what I referenced - you need to be familiar with those tactics not just to execute them, but to defend against them.

Assuming your opponents will be poorly armed, poorly trained or will break at the first sign of resistance is a bad model. Better you plan for the worst and be pleasantly surprised when things turn out easier.

[Mr_White]

You are correct. You can fix and maneuver solo if shooting on the move and not too concerned where some of your rounds go. The Dallas PD shooting had an example of this but that takes us back to time in the fight and using that fire to enable movement.

Some adjustment usually has to be made to the classical pattern to be optimized for solo use. IMHO, it's an especially narrow situation where you can fire shots not directly aimed at and intended to strike the adversary (suppression.) Never say never though.

[Mr_White]

Your opponent (They) being familiar with fire and maneuver is exactly what I referenced - you need to be familiar with those tactics not just to execute them, but to defend against them.

Couldn't agree more with this, HCM!

[mc1911]

So for those of us who haven't been in military or other training that deals with fix and maneuver, what tactic(s) are recommended for the fixee to avoid being outmaneuvered?

[JodyH]

So for those of us who haven't been in military or other training that deals with fix and maneuver, what tactic(s) are recommended for the fixee to avoid being outmaneuvered?

Standard counter-ambush:
Recognize it for what it is.
Assault your way off the X.
To sit tight is to be flanked and killed. Suppressive fire followed by assaulting through the ambush is SOP.
Mano Y mano is gonna suck for both of you because someone knowledgeable and dedicated enough to fix and flank is going to be a tough adversary, both of you are probably going to eat lead but at least counter assaulting gives you a fighting chance.

[JodyH]

BTW: I'm still good with a 20 round .308 as a civilian responding to an active shooter.
If I am using my rifle that means I'm being proactive not reactive. I either see the situation unfolding and choose to intervene or have exited it long enough to retrieve my rifle and return.
The chances of me being ambushed by a rifle toter while I'm also toting a rifle are just about nill, I just cannot envision many plausible scenarios where I'm deploying a rifle in order to press the fight into the unknown.
I'm going to be the one setting up the hasty ambush (much like Mr. Willeford ambushed this clown).
Suppressive fire is pretty far down my list of required capabilities of the rifle I choose to have in my truck.
The ability to accurately engage a target through intervening light/medium barriers (heavy brush, light walls, plate glass, sheetmetal, etc.) is far more important to me.

[HCM]

BTW: I'm still good with a 20 round .308 as a civilian responding to an active shooter.
If I am using my rifle that means I'm being proactive not reactive. I either see the situation unfolding and choose to intervene or have exited it long enough to retrieve my rifle and return.
The chances of me being ambushed by a rifle toter while I'm also toting a rifle are just about nill, I just cannot envision many plausible scenarios where I'm deploying a rifle in order to press the fight into the unknown.
I'm going to be the one setting up the hasty ambush (much like Mr. Willeford ambushed this clown).
Suppressive fire is pretty far down my list of required capabilities of the rifle I choose to have in my truck.
The ability to accurately engage a target through intervening light/medium barriers (heavy brush, light walls, plate glass, sheetmetal, etc.) is far more important to me.

Given where you spend most of your time, the extra range of the 7.62 makes it a worthwhile trade vs the extra rounds.

[Wendell]

In Wilson County, which includes Sutherland Springs, 9 percent of residents have a license to carry a handgun — a rate that's nearly double that of the state of Texas. And that number is likely to rise after the church shooting.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/guns...ys-guns-answer

[JodyH]

In Wilson County, which includes Sutherland Springs, 9 percent of residents have a license to carry a handgun — a rate that's nearly double that of the state of Texas. And that number is likely to rise after the church shooting.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/guns...ys-guns-answer

Having a license to carry =/= actually carrying.
When it's all said and done, the actual percentage of license holders that will carry the majority of the time will still be about 1% or less.
Every time there a publicized crime here in my city I get two dozen phone calls about when my next CCW class will be.
By the time my next class rolls around there will be 5 or 6 out of the 24 who called.
Two years later at the mandatory range re-certification... maybe 1 shows up.