Stephen Willeford, Describes Stopping Gunman (Texas Church)

[Wendell]

Published to YouTube on Nov 7, 2017, by NRA

NRATV brings you an exclusive hour-long interview with Stephen Willeford, the heroic NRA member who shot the Sutherland Springs Church killer and saved his community members.



<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=248LN1TiB40>

[JodyH]

I'd be curious what the group thinks of using a bigger caliber rifle vs a 5.56? Is that a valid lesson? To be clear I'm NOT criticizing or judging Mr Willeford. I know next to nothing about the AR-15, or body armor and hoping to glean some lessons to learn more.

I've always preferred .308 to 5.56.
This situation is pretty much exactly what I envision actually needing a rifle for in urban/suburban America, engaging a single rifle armed opponent who's wearing a minimum of soft armor and possibly plates. Either a disgruntled employee "going postal" or a crazy guy dressed like the Punisher who's trying for a new "high score" body count.
I'd much rather have the barrier penetration and greater thump per round of the .308 than the additional 10 (or even the +22 rounds my AUG gives me) of 5.56.
I see getting through light/medium barriers like car sheetmetal, tempered plate glass windows or things like stucco or thick wooden fences to be more important than suppressive fire.
Even when armed with a rifle these guys just aren't known for pressing the fight, they are known for running away to off themselves at the first sign that things aren't going their way.
If they're wearing IV plates I'd rather put a .308 dead center of the plate than a 5.56, neither one is going to penetrate but the .308 has a greater chance of bitch slapping the fight out of them through the plate than a 5.56 does.

When I'm out in the desert wilds I like the added energy at range the .308 gives me.

Much like the CCW capacity/caliber argument it all comes down to what compromises you're willing to make because nobody can ever be fully prepared for every possibility.
Some are comfortable knowing they're prepared for 90% of what's likely to come their way, others double up the gear and prepare for 95% some triple up and prepare for 99%.

[JodyH]

No.

5.56 will defeat soft armor. 7.62x39 and 300 BO or .308 won't do significantly better on soft armor or defeat most plates without AP ammo.

This is where shooting does not equal fighting. More rounds of 5.56 is better than fewer bigger caliber rounds if only because it is more time in the fight. Hitting moving targets in a fight for example is a process involving shots with various amounts of lead until you get a hit to slow down or fix the opponent followed by follow up shots to finish the opponent. With more rounds you can reduce an armored opponent by getting a piece of them to fix them then finish them with additional shots to unarmored areas. Not to mention suppression fire to enable movement.

"Time in the fight" is rarely an issue much less the deciding factor, neither is suppressive fire or fix and maneuver.
Much like the vast majority of CCW "gun fights" somebody either gives up, is incapacitated or runs away within the first few seconds and first few two-way rounds.

[JodyH]

Confronting and stopping the shooter was what “needed to be done”. As is often the case there was no “right way” to get the “right thing” done, and was as much dependent on luck and/or divine providence as it was skill or tactics.

Sometimes, you just gotta cowboy up and accept that a shit sandwich won’t eat itself, and take the best bite you can. That’s what those men did, God bless ‘em.

Exactly.
Dude stepped up in his socks with a handful of loose rounds and took care of business the best he could.
That's what the average guy can expect if he "gets the call".

[idahojess]

You can see the Willeford's adrenaline dumping toward the end. Tough ordeal.

[HCM]

"Time in the fight" is rarely an issue much less the deciding factor, neither is suppressive fire or fix and maneuver.
Much like the vast majority of CCW "gun fights" somebody either gives up, is incapacitated or runs away within the first few seconds and first few two-way rounds.

A rifle fight is not "the vast majority of CCW" gun fights.

So what happens when they don't break after the first few rounds ?

As for time in the fight, when you let your shooting become a gunfight and things are not stopped early, the first one who has to reload is at a significant disadvantage.

Fix and maneuver are not really something you can do by yourself but they are pretty damn decisive. Even if you are alone vs multiple opponents you need to be aware of them or they will eat your lunch.

[JodyH]

A rifle fight is not "the vast majority of CCW" gun fights.

So what happens when they don't break after the first few rounds ?

As for time in the fight, when you let your shooting become a gunfight and things are not stopped early, the first one who has to reload is at a significant disadvantage.

Fix and maneuver are not really something you can do by yourself but they are pretty damn decisive. Even if you are alone vs multiple opponents you need to be aware of them or they will eat your lunch.

What happens if they don't break after the first dozen magazines?
What if they are experienced with fix and maneuver?
You can always "what if" a situation until you think you need so much shit that you never actually carry any of it.
From reading the "truck gun" thread, just having a rifle within reach of me most days puts me ahead of the majority of people even on this site.

There are many levels of preparedness between a .32 in the pocket and a full combat loadout and a few friends with combat loadouts.

To quote myself:

Much like the CCW capacity/caliber argument it all comes down to what compromises you're willing to make because nobody can ever be fully prepared for every possibility.
Some are comfortable knowing they're prepared for 90% of what's likely to come their way, others double up the gear and prepare for 95% some triple up and prepare for 99%.

[Mr_White]

A rifle fight is not "the vast majority of CCW" gun fights.

So what happens when they don't break after the first few rounds ?

As for time in the fight, when you let your shooting become a gunfight and things are not stopped early, the first one who has to reload is at a significant disadvantage.

Fix and maneuver are not really something you can do by yourself but they are pretty damn decisive. Even if you are alone vs multiple opponents you need to be aware of them or they will eat your lunch.

Good post. Though IMHO maneuver can be done solo - situation-dependent - and it sure is decisive!

[Lester Polfus]

Good God what a pair of brass balls that man has.

He shot it out with the shooter outside the church, at which point the shooter took off.

At that point Willeford could have disengaged, called the cops and still would have been an absolute hero.

Instead, barefoot and with two rounds left he chases the shirtbird down until he crashes out and holds him at gun point.

He reminds me so much of my grandfather who was a quiet, soft spoken man that wouldn't let an innocent person be hurt in his presence.

[HCM]

Good post. Though IMHO maneuver can be done solo - situation-dependent - and it sure is decisive!

You are correct. You can fix and maneuver solo if shooting on the move and not too concerned where some of your rounds go. The Dallas PD shooting had an example of this but that takes us back to time in the fight and using that fire to enable movement.