I can't help but agree with that statement. The "good" AK's are built in Russia. The legendary AK's are built in Russia. Certainly some of the ComBloc countries made decent enough copies, but of the millions of AK's in the world, 90% are junk.............Originally Posted by FredM
I've seen AK's in Iraq & Afghanistan that would beg to differ.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
I wouldn't be so sure that the Russian AKs are "good" all the time either. The history of the Saiga's has been that "vodka specials" are not all that uncommon. It seems to have been particularly bad with the Saiga 12... stuff like there being only gas port, or the gas port(s) being the wrong size (usually too small) keeping it from reliably cycling with the lower powered loads.
I think the AK design itself is sound, but the manufacturing techniques leave much to be desired. I am sure that any firearm produced under the same conditions as the typical AK would also have major issues, probably worse than the AKs do. Many of the manufacturing foulups with AKs are overcome by their design (bad gas ports vs. the over-gassed system, for example) and low expectations (the AK trigger being what it is, it's hard to notice if it was done badly...).
J.Ja
Owner/President of Titanium Crowbar, LLC
AK triggers are quite often nicer than AR triggers.
I honestly haven't had any experience in a long long time with ARs (and that experience was limited) so I can't compare, but I've had a fair amount of time with a number of AKs and variants lately... and the idea that there are ARs with worse triggers is frightening...
J.Ja
Owner/President of Titanium Crowbar, LLC
...but when they are bad, they are horrid. One mag from a full-auto 20ga Saiga left the pad of my trigger finger looking like a Vienna sausage gone bad.
My apologies if my previous post portrayed a belief that all AK's built in Russia are top quality. My point is that you are much more likely to find a quality AK if it was built in Russia than you are if it was built in Bulgaria, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
I've worked on AKs a little, and know of the retaining plates. But I've never seen the need to use them. I've never had any problems with the shephard's crook spring. Maybe I just don't know any better?
When people talk about "junk" AKs and "bad" AK triggers, it all depends on what your definitions of those terms are. A lot of AKs may be junk, but they always always work. The flip side of that is having a very nice gun like a custom 1911 or custom AR that doesn't work reliably. If a gun is reliable, personally, I don't think I could call it junk.
I like typical AK triggers. They never have the crisp break of a good AR. But AK triggers are usually very light and very shootable in my opinion. My only complaint is the trigger slap which is relatively common. Maybe that's the cause of Tamara's vienna sausage finger!
Regarding AK reliability, there also must be something to the acceptable tolerances, or specifically, the design that allows a wide range of acceptable tolerances. There are so many poorly made AKs (even home made ones) that work reliably, it's amazing.
Joe Mamma
If the gun is reliable, I wouldn't call it junk either.
But I stand by my previous post calling 90% of them "junk" for that very reason.
If we look at what makes a quality AK reliable, it is generous tolerances, yet built to a standard. It uses proven manufacturing methods and "good enough" quality components, bent, welded, and riveted to spec.
Given that the majority of AK's in circulation throughout the world are not built with QC/QA in mind, you end up with a ton of rifles that look like an AK, but do not perform like one built to the aforementioned specs. I would also go so far as to say that the majority of US built AK's far exceed the standard to which the majority of AK's are built, thus giving the domestic AK owner a false positive of what "most" AK's are capable of in terms of reliability, longevity, accuracy, and performance.
Last edited by Odin Bravo One; 01-22-2012 at 07:10 PM.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
I worked on a WASR-10 without one, it wasn't a big deal... on a Saiga 12 with bolt hold open, it makes a big difference, because it's one less thing to pop free when futzing with the BHO. The retaining spring isn't bad without dealing with the BHO, but it's a nice convenience either way, and it's a more positive lock IMHO. I had a case or two where the retaining spring felt locked in, but it wasn't, and that's pretty tough to do with the plate.
J.Ja
Owner/President of Titanium Crowbar, LLC
Leaving aside other peoples' guns I've fired, I've owned somewhere between a half-dozen and a dozen AKs. With the exception of one WASR-10, they were all Chinese; a couple milled/chromed Polytechs and the rest garden-variety stamped Norincos. I don't recollect that they were notably more or less reliable than the similar number of ARs I owned over the same period.
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