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Thread: Grizzly Bear Defense

  1. #11
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    GJM--I suspect few people posting here have as much direct first hand experience with large predatory brown/grizzly bears as you do...
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    GJM--I suspect few people posting here have as much direct first hand experience with large predatory brown/grizzly bears as you do...
    I would guess the number of people on the planet that have had as much direct first hand experience with brown/grizzly bears as GJM numbers in the low hundreds, and many of them aren't on the internet because they are out in The Bush...
    @GJM , there's a question I keep meaning to ask you, and forgetting to, so I'll do it now in an attempt to salvage something from this thread.

    I know you've had one Bad Day with a bear, but I'm curious how many situations you've encountered that could have turned into a DLP shooting, but didn't thanks to some combination of foresight, preparation, and perhaps even some luck. If you'd care to talk about your more global approach to being around large bears, in regards to route planning, awareness and etc, that would be cool, but if you don't want to pour anymore energy into this thread, I perfectly understand.

    We're probably looking at somewhere around 2020 for a return vacation to AK with the kiddo, so it's good for us to think about these things.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  3. #13
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    George is who I listen to most on the bear subject, from his many man hours in the field in close proximity to them, though having lived around them for almost 30 years and speaking with as many people as I could with firsthand experience, (the bear biologists were quite interesting to talk to, besides a number of people that have shot them, been mauled by them etc. Not every situation ends up in public domain), Ive formed some thoughts also.

    To the question, mostly a 4" Smith 29 with 250 gr cast loads, the Lyman 429421 bullet with 22 grs 2400 in a Threepersons type holster on a Lawrence belt. Once in a while a Ruger SA with heavy 300-325 gr 45 Colt loads. Formerly an earlier Marlin 1895, with the magazine extended to full (22" barrel, 6 shot mag), then 1886 Brownings, all with 400 gr Barnes Originals & 53 grs 3031, sometimes in recent times, a Winchester model 71. If actually hunting in good bear country, various scoped bolt guns, from 30-06 to 338. Sometimes when knocking around in thick stuff I stick the g19 in a back pocket with a mag of FMJ loads as a last ditch. I often carry bear spray, but never have as an only option. I think its great stuff, and most non-gun people are probably better served with it than firearms. The unfortunate fact is many that are casual shooters overestimate their abilities, or prescribe to the same theory as voting, shoot early and shoot often in regards to bears, however, shooting bears can be a very sticky legal issue, particularly in the lower 48. Time will tell how it plays out with the delisting and defensive bear shootings.

    Ive slept out under the stars quite a lot, and in tents a fair bit, maybe I'm just not that smart, but have had only 1 time a bear tried coming into camp, and the dogs pretty much discouraged it.

    As for practice, one thing that seems to help keep your pistol shooting up is hunting running rabbits with pistols. Great fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by SJC3081 View Post
    I hope no one takes your warning shot advise, you don't fire warning shots at people and I wouldnt fire a warning shot at a bear that can run 35mph. I would not consider the bears welfare at all, false charge, bluff, shit for the bear instant brain shots will be applied. Warning shots are foolish and people who are serious about surviving don't waste time or bullets by giving the bear the extra advantage of time and distance.
    Boo.
    Last edited by Malamute; 10-31-2017 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJC3081 View Post
    I hope no one takes your warning shot advise, you don't fire warning shots at people and I wouldnt fire a warning shot at a bear that can run 35mph. I would not consider the bears welfare at all, false charge, bluff, shit for the bear instant brain shots will be applied. Warning shots are foolish and people who are serious about surviving don't waste time or bullets by giving the bear the extra advantage of time and distance.
    We generally don't fire waning shots at people because most people are in densely populated areas where hitting an innocent is a real concern, "bad people" are your only "safe back stop" and bullets all "hit something," not because warning shots never dissuade people.

    After 20 plus year dealing with people at their worst, I'm more inclined to consider a bear's welfare than most people's.

    As the Supreme Court said about giving verbal warnings to people, the key phrase when considering warning shots vs bears is "if feasible."
    Last edited by HCM; 10-31-2017 at 10:46 PM.

  5. #15
    Here are a few thoughts on defense around bears, as oppposed to hunting bears. Grizzly bears are one of the great things about Alaska, intertwined with salmon, and continuing to make you humble by their position in the food chain. Like people, most bears are pretty good, but it is the outliers that are memorable. Bears do not get shot, just for being bears, and the state of Alaska takes a dim view of people that shoot bears without just cause. There is Alaska law referred to as “Defense of Life and Property,” or DLP for short. After shooting a bear in DLP, you get to skin the bear, turn hide and skull over to Fish and Game, fill out a multi page questionnaire, and be interviewed by the state.

    Shooting and warning shots are way down the list of things you do around bears. All the regular rules apply, try to travel as a group, make noise so as not to surprise a bear, try to make yourself look bigger, don’t run from a bear. At some point, after making yourself seen, talking to the bear, and yelling at the bear, there may be a time those things aren’t working. Or, there may be a time, when a bear surprises you at close range. So now what do you do. First question is whether you have developed firearms skills — if not, you should strongly consider spray in lieu of a firearm, or as a first countermeasure even if you have a firearm.

    Let’s now assume you have chosen a firearm for bear defense, and the bear continues to approach you. If you have time, and capacity in your firearm, and nothing in harm’s way, a warning shot may be warranted. If that shot works, it is the most effective bullet you can fire, as the bear leaves you alone, the bear is unharmed, and you get to go along with your previously scheduled activity. Of course, there is some possibility, that the shot will precipitate an immediate charge. On several occasions, I have fired a warning shot, and on two memorable occasions had a sow and two large cubs run away at high speed. Last summer, when that grizzly charged us after our dog, we were unable to fire a warning shot because our dog was between us and the bear. On Kodiak, when I got charged out deer hunting, I elected not to fire a warning shot as I had a bolt rifle and was worried about capacity and the speed of my next shot.

    So now let’s assume the warning shot did not work, or was not practical because of distance, backstop or your limited capacity. Your next decision is center of mass or the brain. A center of mass shot is an easier target, may dissuade a bear even with a non lethal hit, or may be a great way to start breaking down locomotion if you have something like a shotgun with Brenneke slugs.

    Now, let’s assume the center of mass shot did not work — that is a pretty good indicator that you have a determined bear that will continue their attack unless you are able to kill them. Unlike hunting, where you have the luxury of shooting them through the heart/lungs and letting them bleed out, a dead bear can still gravely injure you before he realizes he is dead. That means you most likely need to hit the brain to get an immediate stop. The good news is the marksmanship challenge typically gets easier with each shot. See below.

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    George, that strikes me as a very generous circle. Yes?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    George, that strikes me as a very generous circle. Yes?

    Depends on what you are shooting, but certainly with a pistol. The Gunsite target goes from top of the mouth to the two eyes.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Makes sense, thanks.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter 41magfan's Avatar
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    Has anyone on this Forum ever killed a bear (of any color) - with a handgun - in a defense of life circumstance?
    The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.

  10. #20
    @GJM and @Malamute , as always, good stuff. Thanks.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

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