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Thread: Grizzly Bear Defense

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I posted the above article on Handgun calibers to Facebook with my same comments.

    I have one opinionated, know it all "friend" who lived a decent amount of time in AK, who assures me spray is 100% scientifically proven to be superior to firearms.

    I pointed out that spray is a psychological stop for the bear. It has to decide to stop. A properly placed bullet gives the bear no choice.

    His response:

    " That is actually incorrect. Spray plays to a bear's weakness. Because a bear's olfactory system is more sensitive than a bloodhounds by a multiple of ten, spray actually overwhelmes a bear. Imagine a train horn going off a foot from your head. The sensory overload of spray is profound, and again, I am speaking from experience. Its also why people are not really bothered by spray. A bullet, however, plays to a bear's evolutionary response system. It fires up their adrenaline making for a pissed off, turbo charged bear. Thats how they can fight other bears with massive wounds. Spray...its not just a nasty sensation for a bear. It is an incredibly debilitating pain. A properly sparyed bear aint deciding shit.

    According to my expert neighor you cant stop a bear by wounding it. You have to physically overwhelm it with injury. Bears instinctively fight to near death when threatened and certainly when wounded.

    Again, I had an educated choice to make in AK. Not just for me, but for our thousands of bike clients in bear country. The science is pretty clear. Spray. If I thought a gun would havr been better I would gladly go that route. However, those inclined to WANT to use a gun find ways to justify it."


    I ended the interaction at this point because I think he is full of shit. I am however willing to consider that I may be full of shit. Is bear spray that proven? I imagine most people use spray because it is effective, convenient, requires little training, is lighter than a firearm, does no permanent harm, and avoids defense or life paperwork. It still gives the bear a vote in the matter, however. Not to mention its weakness in various environmental conditions.
    Your friend is a delta bravo but that doesn't mean their is not some truth.

    I run field crews in light bear country and provide bear spray and training for my crews. There are scientific peer review journal articles that find bear spray is more effective. Are they bias? Maybe, I think their results are true in some areas. Folks are much more likely to throw down some spray then fire rounds at bears (PF forum members are probably not part of that population) and a giant cloud of pepper spray is pretty easy to lay down and get a win by chance/luck/or the bear just deciding I'll find something easier.

    My agency runs crews in Alaska and those folks go through firearm quals.

  2. #102
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    This title brought back memories of this.

  3. #103
    Site Supporter Crazy Dane's Avatar
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    I'm glad this popped back up. My hunting party drew our elk tag for Wyoming and will be headed there in September. The area we hunt (Grays river, south of Alpine) is said to be grizzly country by the folks at WYDNR. I will be taking a side-arm and have considered spray. For those that have experience with bear spray, I have some tactical concerns about using it. The biggest is, At what range do you deploy the spray? Do you try to use it at the spray's maximum range or do you let the bear get closer for a sure shot? How about windy situations? Would you bypass the spray and go straight to the gun to avoiding being the victim of your own spray? I would hate to fight 500 pounds of teeth and claws while blind from my own screw up. I have some experience with black bears but none with grizzly so I will take any advice on the matter. Thanks, Forrest

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by FES313 View Post
    I'm glad this popped back up. My hunting party drew our elk tag for Wyoming and will be headed there in September. The area we hunt (Grays river, south of Alpine) is said to be grizzly country by the folks at WYDNR. I will be taking a side-arm and have considered spray. For those that have experience with bear spray, I have some tactical concerns about using it. The biggest is, At what range do you deploy the spray? Do you try to use it at the spray's maximum range or do you let the bear get closer for a sure shot? How about windy situations? Would you bypass the spray and go straight to the gun to avoiding being the victim of your own spray? I would hate to fight 500 pounds of teeth and claws while blind from my own screw up. I have some experience with black bears but none with grizzly so I will take any advice on the matter. Thanks, Forrest
    Ideally, you give the spray to someone else to deploy, while you keep your gun in your hand. Otherwise, I am not sure how you do both effectively. The wind blew to 40 knots 5/6 days I hunted elk in Montana last fall, and 25 knots the whole time I was caribou hunting — not conducive to spray. Lower 48 grizzly bears seem to be less afraid of people, since they are not typically hunted like in AK.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by FES313 View Post
    I'm glad this popped back up. My hunting party drew our elk tag for Wyoming and will be headed there in September. The area we hunt (Grays river, south of Alpine) is said to be grizzly country by the folks at WYDNR. I will be taking a side-arm and have considered spray. For those that have experience with bear spray, I have some tactical concerns about using it. The biggest is, At what range do you deploy the spray? Do you try to use it at the spray's maximum range or do you let the bear get closer for a sure shot? How about windy situations? Would you bypass the spray and go straight to the gun to avoiding being the victim of your own spray? I would hate to fight 500 pounds of teeth and claws while blind from my own screw up. I have some experience with black bears but none with grizzly so I will take any advice on the matter. Thanks, Forrest
    I train my crews to be conscience of the wind and think about spraying the bear at 25 to 30 feet. I issue 10 oz CounterAssault, they sell them at REI or their website. It’s like a small fire extinguisher, it’ll be easy spend some pepper hate in their direction. Practicing with live spray a few years ago, my crew chased a roofing crew off a roof of a building 200 to 300 feet away and that was “expired” spray. We work in very light grizzly country, no encounters to speak of.

  6. #106
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    I was going to post in the RFI: Visiting Montana and Yellowstone thread before I found this one. First, thanks for all the shared knowledge expressed in this thread. We are traveling to Wyoming and Montana this summer and will be spending a lot of time day hiking in Glacier NP and other locations.
    We are already prepped to buy bear spray but I want to also have a firearm as well. I have multiple training classes under my belt with Givens, Farnam and others and daily carry and M&P 9. I also have available a S&W 686 .357 6” and a Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt. I’m most accomplished with the M&P with the 686 second and hardly any shooting with the .45. I have a selection of holsters for the M&P and a shoulder holster for the .357. I have also been reading the threads for specific ammo choices.
    Is there any advice for the best firearm option for me and the correct ammo choice?
    As always, thanks for any input that can be provided.

  7. #107
    Either your M&P with Underwood Lehigh penetrator loads or your revolver with hard cast.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #108
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    Thank you so much for your input.

  9. #109
    Slaughter Spherical Cows RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    I feel that while awareness of sharks, bears, snakes, and zombies has been raised, most American gunowners are woefully unprepared for the inevitable Robot Uprising.
    It seems to me that the robot uprising is similar to the zombie apocalypse. Lots of high explosives and buckshot. I suppose the real concern is whether these robots are heavily armored or more thinly armored. I've watched enough "Robot Wars" to have learned that a few things seem to work well...puncturing cases ala 14th century Knight's armor with spiky can-openers seems to work pretty well.

    Fire also seems to work. I haven't yet seen anything electrical that didn't burn nicely. And all alloys have a melting point...

    I think the real question is mobility and size. For these robots to be fast enough to chase humans, they'll likely be lightly armored bi or quadrapeds. In which case, close range small arms fire should work pretty well. If they are heavily armored robots, then explosives, will likely be the best solution.

    As it is, I think you prepare for the Robot Uprising like you do the Zombie Apocalypse or Sharknado - focus on fitness, shooting quickly and cleanly, and maybe brush up on your improvised explosive construction skills.

  10. #110
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I have some experience with robots in military applications. None of them performed very well in tests against actual people. Throw a blanket over it and butt-stroke it with an AK. Game over, robot.

    A hardened Big Dog and LS3 could be harder to break, and Atlas in a MOPP suit is scary as fuck, but I'm not losing any sleep about the Robopocalypse :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    It seems to me that the robot uprising is similar to the zombie apocalypse. Lots of high explosives and buckshot. I suppose the real concern is whether these robots are heavily armored or more thinly armored. I've watched enough "Robot Wars" to have learned that a few things seem to work well...puncturing cases ala 14th century Knight's armor with spiky can-openers seems to work pretty well.

    Fire also seems to work. I haven't yet seen anything electrical that didn't burn nicely. And all alloys have a melting point...

    I think the real question is mobility and size. For these robots to be fast enough to chase humans, they'll likely be lightly armored bi or quadrapeds. In which case, close range small arms fire should work pretty well. If they are heavily armored robots, then explosives, will likely be the best solution.

    As it is, I think you prepare for the Robot Uprising like you do the Zombie Apocalypse or Sharknado - focus on fitness, shooting quickly and cleanly, and maybe brush up on your improvised explosive construction skills.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 05-01-2018 at 03:54 PM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

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