Grizzly Bear Defense

[Lester Polfus]

How much practical benefit would you say there would be to stepping up to a 10mm (Glock) while camping in case of bears?

Zero.

After three different Glock 20s and about 10k rounds of handholds, I've come to the conclusions Glock 20s cannot be relied on to run heavy, hardhats, wide meplat loads that make sense for Grizzlies.

I believe @GJM came to similar conclusions. His choice of the USP .45 has a tremendous amount of merit.

For black bears, I'd just carry the Glock 34, with a quality 147 grain load.

I wound up with a 4" .357, and when I we finally make it back to Alaska, I'll load up 180 grain WFN.

[5pins]

737 hit a brown bear in Yakatat:

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...officials-say/

I wonder what the foot pounds of energy was?

[MK11]

Steven Rinella talks grizzly encounter on Joe Rogan. Cites he and his companions having the .44 mag vs. 10 mil debate previously but nobody having the chance to draw--the bear was driven off after getting wacked in the head with a pole.

[JTMcC]

Steven Rinella talks grizzly encounter on Joe Rogan. Cites he and his companions having the .44 mag vs. 10 mil debate previously but nobody having the chance to draw--the bear was driven off after getting wacked in the head with a pole.

What caliber pole??
My friends carry small bore poles, they can double tap faster than me but my big bore pole hits harder.

[Clusterfrack]

@Lester Polfus, That's a lot of 10mm through G20s! I don't have quite that many, but my testing has been more encouraging. I do not believe the G20 failures I've had with heavy hardcast are due to bullet shape, but rather to slide and magazine feed velocity, because I have been able to reproduce FTF malfunctions with heavy round-meplat loads as well. My fix does require a number of aftermarket parts (list below). The USP .45 is an out-of-the-box solution.

Here's the parts list for my Gen4 Glock 20 that yielded reliable function with heavy 10mm loads:

• 24# ISMI recoil spring, Glockmeister captured guiderod
• 460 Rowland mag spring. This holds 13 rounds, reloadable.
• 460 Rowland mag shim set to prevent damage to magazine and keep mag from dropping out when you fire full power loads.
• Zev aluminum mag release

Beartooth 200gr hardcast 9.0gr 800x 1189fps. (Lehigh XP 140 at 1350fps work well too).

In black bear country I carry a 9mm auto with Lehigh XP.

SUCCESS!

Zero malfunctions, and good groups with a wide variety of loads, including heavy 200 gr hard cast Beartooth.

The keys are: 24# RSA and 460R mag spring and mag shims.

Zero.

After three different Glock 20s and about 10k rounds of handholds, I've come to the conclusions Glock 20s cannot be relied on to run heavy, hardhats, wide meplat loads that make sense for Grizzlies.

I believe @GJM came to similar conclusions. His choice of the USP .45 has a tremendous amount of merit.

For black bears, I'd just carry the Glock 34, with a quality 147 grain load.

I wound up with a 4" .357, and when I we finally make it back to Alaska, I'll load up 180 grain WFN.

[Lester Polfus]

@Lester Polfus, That's a lot of 10mm through G20s! I don't have quite that many, but my testing has been more encouraging. I do not believe the G20 failures I've had with heavy hardcast are due to bullet shape, but rather to slide and magazine feed velocity, because I have been able to reproduce FTF malfunctions with heavy round-meplat loads as well. My fix does require a number of aftermarket parts (list below). The USP .45 is an out-of-the-box solution.

Here's the parts list for my Gen4 Glock 20 that yielded reliable function with heavy 10mm loads:

• 24# ISMI recoil spring, Glockmeister captured guiderod
• 460 Rowland mag spring. This holds 13 rounds, reloadable.
• 460 Rowland mag shim set to prevent damage to magazine and keep mag from dropping out when you fire full power loads.
• Zev aluminum mag release

Beartooth 200gr hardcast 9.0gr 800x 1189fps. (Lehigh XP 140 at 1350fps work well too).

In black bear country I carry a 9mm auto with Lehigh XP.

I followed your 10mm experiments with great interest. I had sold my last Glock 20 by then, and ALMOST put my toe back in the water, but the 4" GP100 has been such an easy button for me, and I enjoy it so much, that I just said "nope."

I probably won't go back to an auto pistol as a field gun, but if I do, I'll likely just buy a USP. I think you're on to something with your G20 experiment, but I've reached a point where I enjoy shooting guns, and I enjoy the kinds of activities where I carry a gun afield, but I no longer enjoy fuckering with guns trying to get them to work.

[Clusterfrack]

I enjoy shooting guns, and I enjoy the kinds of activities where I carry a gun afield, but I no longer enjoy fuckering with guns trying to get them to work.

Amen brother. Same here.

[4given]

Zero.

After three different Glock 20s and about 10k rounds of handholds, I've come to the conclusions Glock 20s cannot be relied on to run heavy, hardhats, wide meplat loads that make sense for Grizzlies.

I believe @GJM came to similar conclusions. His choice of the USP .45 has a tremendous amount of merit.

For black bears, I'd just carry the Glock 34, with a quality 147 grain load.

I wound up with a 4" .357, and when I we finally make it back to Alaska, I'll load up 180 grain WFN.

My XDM 10 4.5 has been flawless so far with 200 gr WFN cast and a heavier return spring, but I still find myself taking my Ruger Blackhawk 44 special into the woods loaded with 250gr Keith style cast over a healthy charge of Power Pistol or h-110. I guess it is more an issue of familiarity than anything else

[Lester Polfus]

My XDM 10 4.5 has been flawless so far with 200 gr WFN cast and a heavier return spring, but I still find myself taking my Ruger Blackhawk 44 special into the woods loaded with 250gr Keith style cast over a healthy charge of Power Pistol or h-110. I guess it is more an issue of familiarity than anything else

How many WFN cast rounds do you have through your XDM?

[4given]

How many WFN cast rounds do you have through your XDM?

Not enough to say it is any better than your Glock 20. I doubt if I will ever get a lot of them down the pipe in the near future. Components are too scarce right now.